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Hi, All,
I have a problem with which I need any help you can offer. I recently replaced the faucet in the head as it was leaking. I depressurized the fresh water system and emptied it via the galley sink before starting; after putting the new faucet in, I turned on the water pump, and at first everything seemed okay. I bled the system through the two sinks and the shower and got the usual sputtering as air was vented. But it went on longer than I thought it should, and when I turned on the hot water alone, I was greeted by nothing but air. Thinking that I may have cracked the nylon hose barbs when I removed the water tubing (it took a bit of horsing) I replaced them with bronze fittings. Got the same result. For a while I thought maybe it was just taking a long time to recharge the hot water tank (the P.O. replaced it was a much bigger one), but I can’t believe it should take over one half hour to fill the tank. My friend at West Marine wondered if there was some sort of anti-siphon loop at the tank, but I can’t find anything remotely like this, nor do I see any sort of bleed valve on the expansion tank. I did check the hose clamps on the pump itself (this was an issue some years ago) but they were okay. Any ideas??Thanks,
Mary E. Springhorn
P424 PARALLAX, Hull #61
Sailing out of Bellingham, WAPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Mary
Check the suction side of the fresh water pump. I just replaced a bronze cross fitting I got from Hardware Sales (in Bellingham) to find out it was cracked. ($25 down the drain.) We had that cold spell in December and it may have cracked one of your fittings. Also make sure that the water in your tanks are topped off and the valves to the foot pump and fwd tank are closed.
Don
Syringa #124
Birch Bay WA -
Hi Mary,
Are you saying that the cold water system has vented properly and no longer has air going through it but the hot water system does?
When you depressurize the system you don't empty the water heater. So a little air wouldn't be surprising.
What kind of pump do you have? Is it a diaphram (little arm goes up and down with a belt driven pulley) or some other kind? If air is still coming out of the cold water, you have either empty tanks or air in the pump suction or the pump diaphram is going bad.
If you close all the water valves, does the pump run for a little bit and stop? Does it stop immediately? Or does it continue to run?
Other than that, if the cold water doesn't have air in it but the hot does, turn off the water heater and wait a little while. Run the hot water. Does air stop coming out? If that's the case the thermostat on the water heater has gone bad and the air you're experiencing is steam. I've seen that happen.
Let me know if any of this helps. I know that I replaced all those black plastic fittings with PEX fittings from Home Depot. Stopped all my leaks.
Regards,
Bob
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 6:14 PM, mary e. springhorn < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi, All,
I have a problem with which I need any help you can offer. I recently replaced the faucet in the head as it was leaking. I depressurized the fresh water system and emptied it via the galley sink before starting; after putting the new faucet in, I turned on the water pump, and at first everything seemed okay. I bled the system through the two sinks and the shower and got the usual sputtering as air was vented. But it went on longer than I thought it should, and when I turned on the hot water alone, I was greeted by nothing but air. Thinking that I may have cracked the nylon hose barbs when I removed the water tubing (it took a bit of horsing) I replaced them with bronze fittings. Got the same result. For a while I thought maybe it was just taking a long time to recharge the hot water tank (the P.O. replaced it was a much bigger one), but I can't believe it should take over one half hour to fill the tank. My friend at West Marine wondered if there was some sort of anti-siphon loop at the tank, but I can't find anything remotely like this, nor do I see any sort of bleed valve on the expansion tank. I did check the hose clamps on the pump itself (this was an issue some years ago) but they were okay. Any ideas??Thanks,
Mary E. Springhorn
P424 PARALLAX, Hull #61
Sailing out of Bellingham, WA—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi, Don,
Guess I should have noted that the fresh water system worked fine before the faucet change…I’d been out on the boat literally a week before…so I have to rule out low temperature damage. And, the tanks are full (enough), but I’ll try closing the valves as you mentioned.Thanks,
MaryQuote:
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Hi, Bob,
No, there is still air coming through the cold water system, but at least I’m getting a goodly supply of water as well. I can’t answer as to what kind of pump I have at the moment…I’d have to go and look. I can safely say I don’t have empty tanks…I’d topped them off a month or so ago, and don’t use all that much in four days out on the water. I haven’t tried running the pump with the valves closed, but I can certainly try that experiment. The system worked fine before the faucet change…I’d been out on the boat about a week before hand. BTW, the water heater is not “live”, i.e. it’s not being heated by electricity. I don’t keep it hot when at the slip. Thanks for your suggestions.Mary
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Hi Mary,
It sounds like an air leak in the pump suction. There is probably no causal effect from the faucet change. I'd close all valves on the suction to the water pump except one to a tank with water in it. If you still get air in the cold water system then try opening the valve to the foot pump and see if it pumps without air.
If the foot pump pumps without air, the water pump has a leak in the suction. That may mean a rebuild. No big deal, really.
There is something else, too – Each valve to a tank has a packing nut under the handle. If the valves are really easy to spin open and close then you may need to tighten those nuts – I had to do mine because the one to the port tank's packing dried out and shrank. It gave all sorts of air when I used the port tank. Now it's good to go. It doesn't take a big suction leak.
Bob
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, mary e. springhorn < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi, Bob,
No, there is still air coming through the cold water system, but at least I'm getting a goodly supply of water as well. I can't answer as to what kind of pump I have at the moment…I'd have to go and look. I can safely say I don't have empty tanks…I'd topped them off a month or so ago, and don't use all that much in four days out on the water. I haven't tried running the pump with the valves closed, but I can certainly try that experiment. The system worked fine before the faucet change…I'd been out on the boat about a week before hand. BTW, the water heater is not “live”, i.e. it's not being heated by electricity. I don't keep it hot when at the slip. Thanks for your suggestions.Mary
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Aloha Mary:
I just recently replaced all of the faucets and sink basins on my boat. After hooking it all back together, I had similar problems. The cold water sputtered but still delivered while the hot water didn’t show. The water pump worked fine before the plumbectomy, so I was puzzled. I replaced the pump and all worked fine after. No more problems, but I abandoned my search for the reason why.
Dan Kalinowski
S/V Lady Leanne (#135)
Honolulu -
Mary,
I second Don & Bob's view that this is a suction side problem. Using Bob's recommendation to determine that you get good water flow from the foot pump you can isolate the problem to the portion of the manifold past the valves and the pressure pump. If you don't get good flow from the foot pump, disconnect the hose from the full tank at the manifold. You should see gravity flow of water from the hose. If so the problem is likely in the gate valve, probably the packing nut Bob mentioned. If not then there might be blockage in the tank hose. Try another tank or double check to insure there is at least 1/2 tank of water.The de-pressurization and re-pressurization of the system probably caused a failing component to finally give way.
BTW, I fought a similar problem for over a month, and found the problem to be a small self-tapping screw that was moving around inside the manifold. It finally lodged itself in the hose barb going to the pump and I found it. I suspect the screw was one of those holding the manifold to the bulkhead and it dropped into one of the tank hoses when I removed and serviced the manifold a few weeks earlier.
John
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Mary,It sounds like an air leak in the pump suction. There is probably no causal effect from the faucet change. I'd close all valves on the suction to the water pump except one to a tank with water in it. If you still get air in the cold water system then try opening the valve to the foot pump and see if it pumps without air.
If the foot pump pumps without air, the water pump has a leak in the suction. That may mean a rebuild. No big deal, really.
There is something else, too – Each valve to a tank has a packing nut under the handle. If the valves are really easy to spin open and close then you may need to tighten those nuts – I had to do mine because the one to the port tank's packing dried out and shrank. It gave all sorts of air when I used the port tank. Now it's good to go. It doesn't take a big suction leak.
Bob
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, mary e. springhorn < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi, Bob,
No, there is still air coming through the cold water system, but at least I'm getting a goodly supply of water as well. I can't answer as to what kind of pump I have at the moment…I'd have to go and look. I can safely say I don't have empty tanks…I'd topped them off a month or so ago, and don't use all that much in four days out on the water. I haven't tried running the pump with the valves closed, but I can certainly try that experiment. The system worked fine before the faucet change…I'd been out on the boat about a week before hand. BTW, the water heater is not “live”, i.e. it's not being heated by electricity. I don't keep it hot when at the slip. Thanks for your suggestions.Mary
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What is really amazing is the huge number of failures that can occur in such a simple system (after all, the supply of fresh water has been solved, more or less, for 10,000 years). I mean, a small screw? I'd never think of that in a million years.
Yet here we are in the 21st century tracking down problems in a system that supplies three sinks and a shower.
Have we really advanced in all those years?
On the serious side, though, air in the system is always a suction side problem, fresh water in the bilge with the pump running continuously or frequently is a pressure side problem.
The only exception is pump running all the time and no pressure. That's a bad pump.
Good luck Mary!
Bob
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:34 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Mary,
I second Don & Bob's view that this is a suction side problem. Using Bob's recommendation to determine that you get good water flow from the foot pump you can isolate the problem to the portion of the manifold past the valves and the pressure pump. If you don't get good flow from the foot pump, disconnect the hose from the full tank at the manifold. You should see gravity flow of water from the hose. If so the problem is likely in the gate valve, probably the packing nut Bob mentioned. If not then there might be blockage in the tank hose. Try another tank or double check to insure there is at least 1/2 tank of water.The de-pressurization and re-pressurization of the system probably caused a failing component to finally give way.
BTW, I fought a similar problem for over a month, and found the problem to be a small self-tapping screw that was moving around inside the manifold. It finally lodged itself in the hose barb going to the pump and I found it. I suspect the screw was one of those holding the manifold to the bulkhead and it dropped into one of the tank hoses when I removed and serviced the manifold a few weeks earlier.
John
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Mary,It sounds like an air leak in the pump suction. There is probably no causal effect from the faucet change. I'd close all valves on the suction to the water pump except one to a tank with water in it. If you still get air in the cold water system then try opening the valve to the foot pump and see if it pumps without air.
If the foot pump pumps without air, the water pump has a leak in the suction. That may mean a rebuild. No big deal, really.
There is something else, too – Each valve to a tank has a packing nut under the handle. If the valves are really easy to spin open and close then you may need to tighten those nuts – I had to do mine because the one to the port tank's packing dried out and shrank. It gave all sorts of air when I used the port tank. Now it's good to go. It doesn't take a big suction leak.
Bob
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, mary e. springhorn < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi, Bob,
No, there is still air coming through the cold water system, but at least I'm getting a goodly supply of water as well. I can't answer as to what kind of pump I have at the moment…I'd have to go and look. I can safely say I don't have empty tanks…I'd topped them off a month or so ago, and don't use all that much in four days out on the water. I haven't tried running the pump with the valves closed, but I can certainly try that experiment. The system worked fine before the faucet change…I'd been out on the boat about a week before hand. BTW, the water heater is not “live”, i.e. it's not being heated by electricity. I don't keep it hot when at the slip. Thanks for your suggestions.Mary
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Thanks all for the suggestions. I’ll mosey on down to the boat and do some trouble shooting. I’m hoping it’s not the pump, because I can’t get the foot pump to work either, making me think it’s an air-lock issue.
Thanks Again,
MaryQuote:
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Mary
If my tanks are fairly low, the water pump has difficulty priming. Some pumps will self prime, others won’t. It depends on pump design. If the water level in the tank is lower than the pump, my pump won’t prime. If this happens, the faucet will sound like its pumping air. In this case, both hot and cold water faucets will behave the same way.Regards
Rich
BlackSheep #47Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I’d sure start with refilling the tanks. No matter how full you think they are. You may have inadvertantly drained them into the bilge, or used more than you think.
It’s the easiest solution and certainly the cheapest, plus you have to do it anyway eventually. Rule that out first before ripping into the plumbing.
I can’t tell you how many times I thought I knew the problem that wasn’t. I once spent like an hour trouble shooting a bad internet connection. Cause : cord not fully seated into jack.
AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!
On 2/22/09 7:35 AM, Rich Carter wrote :
Quote:Mary
If my tanks are fairly low, the water pump has difficulty priming. Some pumps will self prime, others won’t. It depends on pump design. If the water level in the tank is lower than the pump, my pump won’t prime. If this happens, the faucet will sound like its pumping air. In this case, both hot and cold water faucets will behave the same way.Regards
Rich
BlackSheep #47Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I’m delighted to say that the fix was easy. It turns out I forgot about the fresh water faucet in the cockpit coaming (installed by the P.O.) as I never use it. Of course, this is higher than all the others, and once I bled this, the system pressurized normally and everything works fine now. Maybe I need to buy a lottery ticket, now??
Mary
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AHA! The old faucet in the cockpit trick. I KNEW it.
🙂
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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BTW, for next time…. when I changed out my faucets, I did not drain
the system; just unpressurized it. The little bit of water that flows
out is no big deal. (It is a boat after all).mary e. springhorn wrote:
Hi, All,
I have a problem with which I need any help you can offer. I
recently replaced the faucet in the head as it was leaking. I
depressurized the fresh water system and emptied it via the galley
sink before starting; after putting the new faucet in, I turned on the
water pump, and at first everything seemed okay. I bled the system
through the two sinks and the shower and got the usual sputtering as
air was vented. But it went on longer than I thought it should, and
when I turned on the hot water alone, I was greeted by nothing but
air. Thinking that I may have cracked the nylon hose barbs when I
removed the water tubing (it took a bit of horsing) I replaced them
with bronze fittings. Got the same result. For a while I thought
maybe it was just taking a long time to recharge the hot water tank
(the P.O. replaced it was a much bigger one), but I can’t believe it
should take over one half hour to fill the tank. My friend at West
Marine wondered if there was some sort of anti-siphon loop at the
tank, but I can’t find anything remotely like this, nor do I see any
sort of bleed valve on the expansion tank. I did check the hose
clamps on the pump itself (this was an issue some years ago) but they
were okay. Any ideas??Thanks,
Mary E. Springhorn
P424 PARALLAX, Hull #61
Sailing out of Bellingham, WA
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