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I’ll be shopping for replacement ports for the four forward opening portlights this winter. I’ve heard a lot of discussion about newfound metal ports and would appreciate comments. What did folks buy and how do you like them? How do you get the best price?
Rich
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More:
Brushed aluminum. Looks like they’ll fit a 7″x14″ cutout.
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Tor
Are you offering these for sale. If so, I may be interested. Please contact me offline at if so.I hardy ever open the forward ports either. I’m always on a mooring or anchor too. They do occasionally get opened however and never seem to seal tightly. I’ve rebuilt them several times over the years and I think they have served their useful life.
Rich
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Rich
I installed 6 New Found Metal SS opening ports for the 6 smaller ports
forward in the boat. They work great. They usually have a boat show price
when there is a boat show somewhere.
I have purchased but not installed 2 of the larger ports (1 for the head
and another for the aft cabin)..Rick
EclipseOn Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:54 AM, re.carter— via maillist <
> wrote:I’ll be shopping for replacement ports for the four forward opening
portlights this winter. I’ve heard a lot of discussion about newfound
metal ports and would appreciate comments. What did folks buy and how do
you like them? How do you get the best price?Rich
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LOVE them! Did an article on these for Blue Water Sailing. On my website.
Pete
On 9/23/2014 8:54 AM, re.carter— via maillist wrote:
I’ll be shopping for replacement ports for the four forward opening portlights this winter. I’ve heard a lot of discussion about newfound metal ports and would appreciate comments. What did folks buy and how do you like them? How do you get the best price?
Rich
BlackSheep_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Rich,
I replaced my six Beckson plastic ports with Newfound Metals ports and I
have been very pleased with the results. If you are contemplating doing it
this winter you should inquire about buying them through their
representative at one of the boat shows this fall to obtain a discount.
Also, get them to commit to making one of their templates available at the
time you expect to do the work.
Phil Fontaine
Aurora
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One and all,
Rich is passing on the Bomar brushed aluminum opening portholes I
have because he needs them with screens, which mine do not have.
So before I post them for sale on eBay, if anyone here would like
them let me know. I believe they will fit easily into the
small-portlight cutouts on the 424, or perhaps with just a little
fudging. They are never used and “like new,” but some years old.
I poked around online this morning to get an idea of price. They
look like the portholes listed on the following website, but
without the screen or inside plastic trim piece:http://greatlakesskipper.com/bomar-nc5512-ex-pt-6-75-x-13-69-boat
-portlight-window-pair-with-trim-ring-and-screen-pairThat website offers them for $200 each + shipping. I’d sell them
here for half that, $100 each + (or else $150 ea. on eBay).
Trades considered (which could become interesting).Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I found this interesting article on how to install the NFM ports. There appears to be more to it than I thought. It’s an interesting read even if you aren’t planning the job.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/nfm_port_lights&page=1Does anyone have a part number or similar that I could ask NFM to match when I order? What should I expect to pay for a set of 4 of these?
Rich
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Small ones: 512SS $210 plus $25 for teak frame
Large ones: 620SS $520 plus $45 for teak frame,
trade show price in January 2012Also need the bedding and foam for about $90, and shipping was high,
about $175 for the whole lot of ten. They rent you the templates for
$20 each with an $80 deposit on them.Figure net of about $4000 for the whole project. Of course half of that
if only doing the six smaller ports. The 6 x 20’s are so expensive
because they are built up from separate castings, welded together, and
polished out. Also the glass has to be thicker on those.Install article here:
http://www.dublerfamily.com/Regina_oceani/Articles/PortsAugust2012.pdfPete
On 9/23/2014 1:37 PM, re.carter— via maillist wrote:
Quote:I found this interesting article on how to install the NFM ports. There appears to be more to it than I thought. It’s an interesting read even if you aren’t planning the job.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/nfm_port_lights&page=1Does anyone have a part number or similar that I could ask NFM to match when I order? What should I expect to pay for a set of 4 of these?
Rich
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Thanks Pete
$210 doesn’t sound bad. I was budgeting about $1200 to replace four opening small ports up forward. Two other two are fixed. I have no need to replace the two fixed ports in the main cabin. I don’t find the opening ports to be of much use for ventilation anyway.I have two large opening ports on the port side. The starboard side, inside the head, are fixed. The original opening ports were an inexpensive aluminum casting. I replaced my large opening ports with Bowmar ports many years ago. There was no way to repair the corrosion on the original cast ports. I bought four large Bowmar ports, but the opening on the starboard side ports is a bit too large for them to fit. I have no idea why someone would elect to use fixed ports in the head.
The forward ports were a more robust casting. I’ve restored them several times, but I’ve never gotten them to seal tightly. I think each boat was built differently. Some were built with plastic ports.
I already replaced the three deck hatches. Corrosion got into the hinges of the two larger hatches. One broke at the hinge. The other had a crack. The smaller hatch had issues with the arm that is supposed to hold it open. I recently replaced that last hatch this past spring with a stainless hatch on clearance at defender. This hatch is really nice. I wish I could have found a matching hatch for the two I earlier replaced.
If anyone has a part number for the smaller hatch replacement, I would appreciate the info.
Rich
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Rich,
If you mean the hatch over the galley, I replaced it with a size 40 Lewmar
Ocean Hatch. That was an almost perfect drop in replacement. Only had to
sand the corners of the wooden frame. Of course the old screw holes had to
be filled and new ones drilled. I think the cutout is around 19.5″ square.
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgradeDeckRig.htm#Hatches & VentilationRegards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s BlogOn Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 4:05 PM, re.carter— via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Thanks Pete
$210 doesn’t sound bad. I was budgeting about $1200 to replace four
opening small ports up forward. Two other two are fixed. I have no need
to replace the two fixed ports in the main cabin. I don’t find the opening
ports to be of much use for ventilation anyway.I have two large opening ports on the port side. The starboard side,
inside the head, are fixed. The original opening ports were an inexpensive
aluminum casting. I replaced my large opening ports with Bowmar ports many
years ago. There was no way to repair the corrosion on the original cast
ports. I bought four large Bowmar ports, but the opening on the starboard
side ports is a bit too large for them to fit. I have no idea why someone
would elect to use fixed ports in the head.The forward ports were a more robust casting. I’ve restored them several
times, but I’ve never gotten them to seal tightly. I think each boat was
built differently. Some were built with plastic ports.I already replaced the three deck hatches. Corrosion got into the hinges
of the two larger hatches. One broke at the hinge. The other had a
crack. The smaller hatch had issues with the arm that is supposed to hold
it open. I recently replaced that last hatch this past spring with a
stainless hatch on clearance at defender. This hatch is really nice. I
wish I could have found a matching hatch for the two I earlier replaced.If anyone has a part number for the smaller hatch replacement, I would
appreciate the info.Rich
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Has anyone used the new Tri-matrix self-sealing portlights? Installation looks much easier than traditional portlights and there should never be an issue with the caulk failing since they install without caulking. Looking for experience with them…
http://www.newfoundmetals.com/portlights/tri-matrix/rectangular-tri-matrix
Rich
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No I have not, but I have installed Newfound Metals ports and others.
Anything to make installation easier puts up a flag for me. Can’t help it,
old school. I’m not saying this new style is not good and possibly may be
the best riding wave of the future for ports ….but I doubt it. Newfound
metals make a great port and so do the other experienced manufactures in
the industry, they just need to be properly installed by professionals or
meticulous diy’s. Some background experience is very helpful. A port like
this ……” no caulking needed” seems to me to be a marketing strategy to
get more diy,s to have the “guts” to install on their own. There are many
who don’t feel 100% comfortable spending those bucks, filling and drilling
new holes and spreading the goop themselves, so something like this could
be a huge attraction. Like I said, marketing! It could be the next best
thing, or maybe you’ll have to keep buying their re-bed kit for the life of
your boat.That’s my 2 cents,
KenOn Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:04 PM, re.carter— via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Has anyone used the new Tri-matrix self-sealing portlights? Installation
looks much easier than traditional portlights and there should never be an
issue with the caulk failing since they install without caulking. Looking
for experience with them…http://www.newfoundmetals.com/portlights/tri-matrix/rectangular-tri-matrix
Rich
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Interesting. But has anyone ever had an issue with the caulk
failing in a portlight installation?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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If I read the website correctly, the no-caulk ports are significantly less
expensive than the caulked ports. Does that make sense?Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s BlogOn Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Interesting. But has anyone ever had an issue with the caulk
failing in a portlight installation?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Think about it, most ports that have been bedded properly with caulking
last 20 or 30 years (less on wood boats), even more, before needing to be
re-bedded. The gaskets and possibly acrylic on opening ports?… that’s a
different story, they need to be maintained more regularly.On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Interesting. But has anyone ever had an issue with the caulk
failing in a portlight installation?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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So now I’m up to a nickles worth.
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Ken Page wrote:
Quote:Think about it, most ports that have been bedded properly with caulking
last 20 or 30 years (less on wood boats), even more, before needing to be
re-bedded. The gaskets and possibly acrylic on opening ports?… that’s a
different story, they need to be maintained more regularly.On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Interesting. But has anyone ever had an issue with the caulk
failing in a portlight installation?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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ARGH, I hate when that happens. When the porthole over my bunk
started leaking, it turned out the cause was a very sloppily cut
(overcut) corner of the original coachhouse cutout, which left
too much of a gap for the bedding compound to fill effectively. I
pulled the port, cleaned the area, put a piece of tape over one
side of that corner and schmoozed in some thickened epoxy to fill
the void. Then I reinstalled the porthole, now a properly snug
fit, using my usual rope caulk bedding. That was a few years ago
and I don’t expect a recurrence.BTW, all, my four Bowmar brushed aluminum opening portholes (for
the small ports in our 424’s) are posted for sale on eBay
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-4-Bomar-Series-2000-Aluminum-Openin
g-Portlights-Portholes-/231346301132?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=i
tem35dd5068cc> . “For you my friends, special deal!”Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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I did a bit of research on these ports. They are a hybrid of plastic and metal parts. The basic frame is some type of plastic. There are stainless hinges, dogs, and trim plates. At first, I dismissed the ports as being inadequate but I’m still mulling it over. Most hatches install from the inside with a trim ring on the outside, leaving a gap around the inside of the trim ring. You need to be very careful caulking these to avoid leaks and do a net job. I’ve installed many of these over the years. The standard MM ports are of this design. I’ve had the seal fail on occasion. Given enough time, the caulk will dry and crack. It makes quite a mess. Water gets into the teak liner on the inside of the coachroof. By the time you notice it, the damage is done. Butyl bedding might last longer but it’s apparently difficult to fill this space around the inside of the trim ring.
There are some plastic ports such as Beckson that install from the outside but are a bit flimsy in MHO. The hinges on these things tend to crack. There are a number of extruded aluminum ports that install from the outside and have no frame around the light such as the Bomar 2000 series. The problem with the aluminum ports is that they will eventually corrode and require replacement. When underway in a rough chop, seawater will spray these forward ports and shorten their lifespan.
The Tri-Matrix ports are an interesting compromise. The frame is some kind of molded plastic. Since it’s molded, they can shape it such that water that collects on the outside lip drains off. This avoids the nuisance of having water pour in when you open them after a rain storm. The inside of the frame has some kind of gasket material that seals when you install them. There are no fasteners that protrude through the frame. There are four stainless plates that attach to the outside and inside of the frame. These make the port look “Borg like”. The plastic frame at first turned me off, but the whole boat is made from plastic. The mix of stainless and white plastic makes the look odd however. If they had made the four plates as a continuous ring, I think they would look much better. Info on the MM website is a bit sketchy however. I was hoping for some first-hand info and comments.
Rich
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Rich,
I think I’ve learned more about our boats from you than from any other 5 people in this forum! I often read your emails twice, and take notes. I do wonder, though, about your opinion of aluminum ports, that “seawater will spray these forward ports and shorten their lifespan.” As far as I know, all of the originals on all the 424’s were aluminum. After 36+ years, Silverheels’ are still perfectly sound and unblemished beyond the most superficial oxidation, and that despite her fair share of offshore sea spray these past 7 years.
IMHO, stainless ports on these boats look awesome and (hopefully) increase the vessel’s resale value a bit, but one pays a high price for the indulgence. For us budget cruisers I believe aluminum portlights and portholes are an excellent choice and a good value. On Silverheels, at least, the originals are in good shape, and I’m still pleased with the two large opening ports I installed some years ago, one over the aft bunk and one in the shower stall.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Tor
My experience with aluminum hatches and ports appears to be a bit different than yours. The boat came with three cast Bomar deck hatches, four small cast brand-X forward opening ports and two large aft brand-Y aft opening ports. The middle two portlights and the two aft starboard portlights are fixed. These fixed portlights are in fine shape even though they have aluminum frames. Maybe the anodizing protects the extruded frames? All three deck hatches corroded and have been replaced. All six opening ports have also corroded. Only four original ports remain.The four forward cast portlights have been a maintenance issue. They suffer from surface corrosion but are otherwise OK. They tend to corrode where the rubber gasket seals however. They have always leaked a bit, just a drip here and there. I’ve rebuilt them many times. The screens are corroded. They need to go.
I suppose the aluminum frame ports will probably last longer than me. I’m still thinking all this over.
Rich
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Rich,
Clearly your experiences warrant your low opinion of aluminum on saltwater boats. The metal has fared much better here. I still have all original aluminum hatches, on which only a couple of the indoor arms (and in one case the arm’s bolt attachment point) have failed. I replaced them with stainless steel hatch springs, which I prefer in any case. All but two of the portlights are original, and those only because I wanted a couple of large opening portholes. The two (presumably original) small opening ports work fine, although I almost never open them, and they don’t leak. I should add that according to the P.O., Silverheels spent her first 15 years or so on the Great Lakes. This and her apparently light usage before I bought her probably accounts for her better than average condition throughout. Of course, that was a factor in my buying decision in the first place.
I believe any owner who installs new aluminum ports now will probably not live to regret the choice, literally, but when you’re starting out with parts several decades old the material obviously can, from what you describe, be disappointing.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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After just recently rebuilding (cleaning, repainting, new gasket, new acrylic, and new dogs as needed) the three large Bomar cast aluminum deck hatches, I kinda wish I still had all the original cast aluminum ports that these old girls came with. There is one still in the shower and another was kept as a spare under the v-berth with screen.
In 1996 apparently by my records of paperwork, all nine of the others were replaced with Lewmar #4 size opening (#39842-0500 smoked). These things are big, the lens is 5 3/16″ x 23 1/8″. Don’t get me wrong, these are pretty nice but they do have some issues that I don’t like. Fortunately for me my PO figured out how to fix the number one complaint of these ports, that is a split seam outside on the frame will start to let water into the aluminum extrusion after the exposed caulking brakes down. That in turn, makes it self seen at the dog downs which has had customers a tad frustrated. My PO drilled small holes in the outer ring which only need to be periodically cleaned out with a wire. Fixed! The screen option totally sucks with these ports, there is no way that I can see to fabricate a fitted screen easily and aesthetically appealing, they come with an abortion of an external plastic screen. The last complaint is the lens is not in a casting which can be dogged down with pretty much equal pressure on a gasket, these dogs are attached to the lens and as I can see they have over the years bent the lens at each dog point so they are no longer …flat! I’m looking at having to replace all the lenses. Not a biggy, buy the stock, cut and drill with a template all the fricken holes, bla bla bla.
Taking a good look at the cast Bomar ports that I have left, I see a simple, well built product, easily rebuilt with parts still available, threaded bolt, spring pins, gasket, and lens. What’s not to love about how simple it is to rebuild a cast product? Pearson had simple quality, installed in their production boats and I’d keep all of it going if possible. -
K.I.S.S.
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Exactly Tor,
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:K.I.S.S.Quote:
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Precisely, Ken.
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Also, keep it cheap!!! http://pagetwo88.blogspot.com/
On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:Precisely, Ken.Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Re: portlights
Author:
My boat has all original ports. Â The only opening ones are : 2 in the head/shower; one in the galley; and one over the aft bunk. Â I pulled them all, had them sandblasted and poweder coated, and mounted new lenses. Â They look as new for a total cost of around $150. Â The hatches are next.
Â
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu
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I’m envious Dan, I thought about having my hatches sandblasted and if I was in a proper garage or shop I would have. Never thought of powder coating, I bet they look awesome!
Ken -
Re: portlights
Author:
Aloha Ken: Â I’m also planning to sand blast and powder coat the mainsheet traveler base. Â I got the Pearson logo decal through the owner’s group a few years ago. Â Wth these applied, it should turn out close to new. Â It’s the details!
Â
Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Keehi Lagoon, O’ahu
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Dan,
I painted mine with 1-part poly and applied the same logo decals that you mentioned below. The original paint was flaking. I scraped and sanded but the finish isn’t perfect. At least I didn’t have to remove anything. The traveler looks great now, but I’ll bet yours are better. The logo will probably only last a few years and will need replacement. I hope someone has a supply of these.The original traveler was a Schaefer piece of junk. I assume yours is the same design. The Garhauer replacement has lower friction and better mechanical advantage. You might consider an upgrade in the future.
Rich
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