Rudder/Steerage problem

[madsailor]

Hi All!

I have a friend who has left Florida and is now in Isla Mujeres for repairs on their way to the south Pacific.  Here's her letter (I'll get her to join the 424 site in a day or so, or will do it for her):

Hey Bob- How are you?  We are in Mexico.  We left Key West for Belize and in
the middle of the Yucatan Channel, our steerage gave way and we were totally
tossed around and feeling sick and we were able to temporarily get the
steerage working and made our way to the closest port – Isla Mujeres, near
Cancun.  We had a very stressful 15 hours of sailing 70 nm – against current
and in huge seas and breaking waves on our stern, but we made it safely and
in good spirits and are resting now and getting ready to leave again – after
we fix the steerage.  Thought you might have some experience talking with
other owners about a problem with the bushing that holds the steering post
in the rudder – it vibrated up – we are not sure when it happened exactly,
but we installed our new autopilot in November and then went to the Bahamas
and didn't really have too rough weather until the two days leaving Key West
for Belize – the steering post popped up and dislodged the auto-pilot arm
and jammed it so that we could not steer.  It does not appear that it
damaged the auto-pilot arm – we just need to put that back on after we
secure the rudder and steering post connection.  Does that make sense?  Any
tips on securing the steering post in a new way so that it does not happen
again?   When Larry installed the auto-pilot it had already vibrated loose –
from the previous owner's usage – and so it seems to me that it is something
that has happened twice now and we need to find an alternative way of
securing so that it does not happen a 3rd time.  I will try and make a post
to the Pearson web page – I tried to do it once before and I got no response
– and I'm not sure if I did it correctly.  We are still having issues with
the HAM radio – but we are working with it.  We will slowly get it all
together – its fun being in Mexico.  I met some great new friends already
today.  Let me know how things are going with you.  Warmly, Julie

 
My response to this was that she may have bigger problems as the rudder post is not separate from the rudder – it has arm welded inside and should not move vertically more than the space between the top of the rudder and the hull.  If it's more than that, either the arms have broken (common) or they have worked their way vertically in the rudder matrix – either requires serious rudder repair.

Has anyone else had this kind of rudder problem?

Thanks,

Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[john stevenson]

Bob,
When she says “bushing” could she mean the gudgeon that holds the rudder post to the skeg.  That might allow the rudder post to move up. I agree, if the rudder post moved more than the distance between the rudder and hull, there must be some sort of structural failure within the rudder.

The loss of the rudder on a passage is one of the things I always think about after I depart, never before when the boat is hauled.  I gotta get that on my list for the next haulout.  I don't even have any good pictures of the rudder to reference while the boat is in the water. I'm actually assuming there is a gudgeon between the rudder and and the hull.

John

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi All!

I have a friend who has left Florida and is now in Isla Mujeres for repairs on their way to the south Pacific.  Here's her letter (I'll get her to join the 424 site in a day or so, or will do it for her):

Hey Bob- How are you?  We are in Mexico.  We left Key West for Belize and in
the middle of the Yucatan Channel, our steerage gave way and we were totally
tossed around and feeling sick and we were able to temporarily get the
steerage working and made our way to the closest port – Isla Mujeres, near
Cancun.  We had a very stressful 15 hours of sailing 70 nm – against current
and in huge seas and breaking waves on our stern, but we made it safely and
in good spirits and are resting now and getting ready to leave again – after
we fix the steerage.  Thought you might have some experience talking with
other owners about a problem with the bushing that holds the steering post
in the rudder – it vibrated up – we are not sure when it happened exactly,
but we installed our new autopilot in November and then went to the Bahamas
and didn't really have too rough weather until the two days leaving Key West
for Belize – the steering post popped up and dislodged the auto-pilot arm
and jammed it so that we could not steer.  It does not appear that it
damaged the auto-pilot arm – we just need to put that back on after we
secure the rudder and steering post connection.  Does that make sense?  Any
tips on securing the steering post in a new way so that it does not happen
again?   When Larry installed the auto-pilot it had already vibrated loose –
from the previous owner's usage – and so it seems to me that it is something
that has happened twice now and we need to find an alternative way of
securing so that it does not happen a 3rd time.  I will try and make a post
to the Pearson web page – I tried to do it once before and I got no response
– and I'm not sure if I did it correctly.  We are still having issues with
the HAM radio – but we are working with it.  We will slowly get it all
together – its fun being in Mexico.  I met some great new friends already
today.  Let me know how things are going with you.  Warmly, Julie

 
My response to this was that she may have bigger problems as the rudder post is not separate from the rudder – it has arm welded inside and should not move vertically more than the space between the top of the rudder and the hull.  If it's more than that, either the arms have broken (common) or they have worked their way vertically in the rudder matrix – either requires serious rudder repair.

Has anyone else had this kind of rudder problem?

Thanks,

Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

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[madsailor]

Hi John,

I've never taken it apart – but the rudder post extends past the rudder and is held in place vertically and horizontally by the bottom fitting.  It is a gudgeon of sorts with the rudder post being the pintle.  But it is the sheer weight of the rudder that holds it down – there are no pins.  Removing that lower fitting would result in the rudder falling to the autopilot arm or the quadrant, whichever comes first.  That is, in fact, how you remove the rudder and post.

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[Tor]

Bob,

I cannot add anything useful to the replies you’ve already gotten regarding how the rudder is attached to the rudder post (assuming that is what your friend meant by “steering post”) in a Pearson 424. On the broader subject of overcoming irreparable steering failures at sea, however, I have one or two thoughts that might be useful to others.

One is to drill a 3/4″ to 1″ hole athwartships through the rudder’s lower aft corner. In the event of an upper steering failure (not what your friends experienced), a diver can shackle or tie lines to the rudder through this hole. The lines are led up to the sheet winches either side of the cockpit. The boat can then be steered to safety by directing the rudder with these lines. (Note: Be sure to thoroughly seal the edges of the hole with epoxy after drilling it to prevent water intrusion into the rudder laminates.)

Another solution to lost steering, one that would have saved your friends a great deal of effort and anxiety, is a windvane that can double as an emergency rudder. The Auto-Helm brand windvane I am in the process of installing on my boat (http://www.selfsteer.com/products/autohelm/index.php) employs a separate rudder completely independent of the vessel’s steering system, which can instantly take over the steering of the boat at any time, either by windvane, by tiller-pilot, or by hand via a small “tiller.” This seems like the ideal steering back-up system to me, and, as such offers considerable peace of mind and safety at sea. Alternatively, some other windvanes, most notably the Monitor, offer optional emergency rudder set-ups. (See Monitor’s MRUD emergency rudder conversion kit, “with a rudder large enough to steer a 50 ft BOC boat,” at http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/features.php#Anchor-M-Rud-46919).

Lastly, one delivery skipper buddy of mine once sailed a rudderless boat in from open ocean right to the dock in Tortola by steering with a sail dragged overboard, switching between the port and starboard quarters as necessary while using sail trim and balance to maintain desired direction.

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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[Anonymous]

Hello Friends,

Greetings from s/v Miss Kathleen!

THANK YOU for your prompt and very helpful responses. We are excited to be a part of this community. My husband and I are in Isla Mujeres and we were able to fix the steerage problem this afternoon. When I sent my e-mail to my friend Bob, I did not understand clearly yet what was wrong. The top rudder bearing just below the quadrant vibrated up the rudder post and out of its hole – causing excess vibration which caused the auto-pilot steering arm for our new Raymarine system to vibrate loose and jam in the quadrant, locking the steering. We have two autopilots – the original Ratheon quadrant is lower than the main quadrant and the new Raymarine is above the main quadrant. We reseated the rudder bearing and put a retainer clamp to prevent this from happening again (we hope!!). Tomorrow we will look for some shims to re-secure the auto-pilot arm.

Thanks again – any further comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I totally agree with the benefit of the wind vane – I have wanted one, but we just wanted to get off the dock rapidly with a low budget and we have davits.

I am excited that we are on the mailing list!! We will respond as we can if we have any information that may be of value to others. Pearsons Rule!! J

Warmly, Julie (and the Master and Commander…Captain Larry) J

Have a great day!

Julie Teetsov, Ph.D.
Life Coach

Celestial Coaching, Inc.
()

“Live your dreams. Imagine your life. Create your future.”

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[Tor]

Julie,

I’m installing an Auto-Helm windvane on my 424 precisely because I also have davits. (Otherwise, I’d probably have bought a Monitor.) With this Auto-Helm the only connection between the airvane and its rudder are a pair of thin, flexible cables that can be led around the davit-hung dinghy. To my knowledge this is the only windvane on the market that accommodates davits so readily. It’s also beautifully machined, built like a tank, and provides a 2nd steering system for the boat 100% independent of the primary system. What’s more, you can connect a relatively inexpensive, low-draw tiller pilot to the Auto-Helm windvane for self-steering under power.

I’ll be taking notes & photos of my installation. If/when the time comes that you’re ready for a windvane, feel free to contact me and I’ll send you what I’ve got, plus observations once I’ve sailed with it for a while.

Reef early,

Tor
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[sumocean]

Tor

Can’t wait for the install. It looks like a great system.

Linus

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