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Guys-
thinking of replacing my rope to wire main halyard with all rope this coming season. anyone have any feelings one way or the other? I have heard that with all rope there is some constant adjustment necessary while sailing that of course you don’t have with wire.Main reason I was debating switching is that I am thinking if using a turning block at the bottom of the mast and going forward with the halyard to the anchor windlass to pull people up the mast.
Rodd Leeds
Windseeker
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Rodd,
I use Sta-Set X line for the halyards. They claim it doesn’t stretch under
load. It’s a little awkward to coil for the first year or so – a bit stiff –
but it doesn’t need adjustment once it’s set.FYI, I replaced my roller furling genoa halyard with an all-wire set-up to
get rid of that big, permanent coil of line at the mast’s port base. Since I
only drop the furling genoa once every couple of years or so the
inconvenience factor is minimal.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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+1 on using StaSet-x or similar from other manufacturers. It has a straight
mono-filament core rather than a braided core (regular StaSet double
braid). I’ve found StaSet-X much easier for eye-splicing than StaSet or
other double braids, although it is certainly much more difficult than for
3-strand or single braid. I have all rope halyards, all StaSet-X. I
replaced the masthead wire/rope sheaves with rope sheaves, but that is
probably not necessary. IMO, the amount of stretch in StaSet-X over wire is
not significant for a cruising boat like the 424.
I also converted to internal halyards, which gives me two fore-sail halyards
instead of one (also 2 main halyards). That’s something you might consider
for hauling people up the mast. You won’t have to drop the genoa to have a
halyard to pull people up the front of the mast. Of course you could just
use the main halyard, but that can be a little awkward for working on the
front of the mast.
You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:36 AM, SilverHeels wrote:
Quote:Rodd,I use Sta-Set X line for the halyards. They claim it doesn’t stretch under
load. It’s a little awkward to coil for the first year or so – a bit stiff
–
but it doesn’t need adjustment once it’s set.FYI, I replaced my roller furling genoa halyard with an all-wire set-up to
get rid of that big, permanent coil of line at the mast’s port base. Since
I
only drop the furling genoa once every couple of years or so the
inconvenience factor is minimal.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silv erheels.us
Original Message
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I replaced my sheaves and halyards. At the same time I ran my halyards
internally so I went from 2 halyards on the main and 1 on the mizzen to 4
and 2 respectively. I also added a PVC conduit as John mentions.
I had a problem with the 1/2″ lines on the main sail halyard when I did
this. The splice was getting hung up in the sheave due to the tight turn.
This was not a problem on the genoa halyard (1/2″ XLS Extra) as the hoist is
at an angle to the sheave. I went to a smaller diameter high-tech line on
the main mast halyards (3/8″ Warpspeed), left the Genoa at 1/2″ and used
3/8″ XLS on the mizzen mast.Hmm…. I’m not 100% sure it’s warpseed now that I re-read that. I can
verify if you need to know for sure.
I used XLS Extra because I had previously replaced my wirerope Genoa
halyard with Stay-Set-X and found it to be too stiff over time and hard to
manage the line.I bought my sheaves at Zephyrwerks: http://zephyrwerks.com/ (Prices are Feb
2010)
Main mast 4 – 4.75″ x .625″ x .625″ grooved for
1/2″ line @ $56 each
Mizzen mast – 2 – 2″ x .468″ x .375″ grooved for 3/8″ line @ $30 each
I also had new pins made for the main masthead I sent in the old ones @ $50
each
Mizzen sheave pins were replaced with off the shelf pins.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:58 AM, John Stevenson wrote:
+1 on using StaSet-x or similar from other manufacturers. It has a
straight
mono-filament core rather than a braided core (regular StaSet double
braid). I’ve found StaSet-X much easier for eye-splicing than StaSet or
other double braids, although it is certainly much more difficult than for
3-strand or single braid. I have all rope halyards, all StaSet-X. I
replaced the masthead wire/rope sheaves with rope sheaves, but that is
probably not necessary. IMO, the amount of stretch in StaSet-X over wire
is
not significant for a cruising boat like the 424.
I also converted to internal halyards, which gives me two fore-sail
halyards
instead of one (also 2 main halyards). That’s something you might consider
for hauling people up the mast. You won’t have to drop the genoa to have a
halyard to pull people up the front of the mast. Of course you could just
use the main halyard, but that can be a little awkward for working on the
front of the mast.
You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:36 AM, SilverHeels
wrote:Rodd,
I use Sta-Set X line for the halyards. They claim it doesn’t stretch
under
load. It’s a little awkward to coil for the first year or so – a bit
stiff
–
but it doesn’t need adjustment once it’s set.FYI, I replaced my roller furling genoa halyard with an all-wire set-up
to
get rid of that big, permanent coil of line at the mast’s port base.
Since
Quote:I
only drop the furling genoa once every couple of years or so the
inconvenience factor is minimal.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silv erheels.us
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Thanks all ! Great info as usual, and of course lots of opinions on which
rope to use, but seems unanimous that everyone has switched away from the
wire.Just how tough is the Sta-set X to coil and handle and for how long? Tor
mentioned a year– is that a summer season or an entire year of full time
cruising? Would I be able to wrap the sta-set x around the maxwell anchor
windlass in order to hoist someone up?Thx.
Rodd
Windseeker, #214
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Rodd,
Sta-Set X handles like any other line, even when new. It’s just a little
stiffer than you’re used to when you coil it. It’ll coil, though, and go
around winches, windlasses and cleats just fine. It’s good stuff.Tor
SilverHeels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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john stevenson wrote:You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.Quote:Hi John,Am doing the conversion to 4 internal halyards and also wanted to pull conduit for the wires. Your website mentioned you pop riveted the conduit to the mast which was also my plan but so far have not come up with a simple sounding method to do so.
Running the wires into the conduit and pushing that up the mast (yes it’s out of the boat) no problem but how to drill holes through the mast and into the conduit with having a trained muskrat to run up the inside of the mast to hold the conduit in place while drilling?
The best idea I have so far is to drill a couple of initial holes to run a line inside the mast, around the conduit, back out the hole and tie off to capture the conduit and hold it in place. Then drill the rest of the holes and rivet in place. So, how did you do it?
Thanks
Skip -
Skip,
I left that job to the boatyard. The method was similar to what you are
considering, but I decided to let the guys who have done this many times
have the job.Basically you drill holes in the mast wall for the pop-rivets then drill a
second set holes slightly off-set from the pop-rivet holes. Slide the
conduit with wires into the mast, then run a wire hook (e.g. coat hanger)
into the mast through the first of the secondary holes, grab the conduit and
pull it tight against the mast wall. Drill a hole in the conduit through
the pop-rivet hole, then secure the conduit with a pop-rivet. Move on to the
next and repeat the process until the conduit is secured from bottom to
top. Then fill the secondary holes with more pop-rivets or self-taping
screws.
Some people recommend pre-drilling the pop-rivet holes in the conduit (to
avoid drilling into the wires), but that requires precise measurement. Not
sure which approach the boatyard used on my mast.On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:00 PM, skipmac wrote:
@john stevenson wrote:
You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.Hi John,
Am doing the conversion to 4 internal halyards and also wanted to pull
conduit for the wires. Your website mentioned you pop riveted the conduit
to the mast which was also my plan but so far have not come up with a simple
sounding method to do so.Running the wires into the conduit and pushing that up the mast (yes it’s
out of the boat) no problem but how to drill holes through the mast and into
the conduit with having a trained muskrat to run up the inside of the mast
to hold the conduit in place while drilling?The best idea I have so far is to drill a couple of initial holes to run a
line inside the mast, around the conduit, back out the hole and tie off to
capture the conduit and hold it in place. Then drill the rest of the holes
and rivet in place. So, how did you do it?Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
_______________________________________________
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-
I also had the yard attach the conduit. They used two sets of rivets side by
side.
You use a “hanger” to pull on the PVC via one hole and rivet the other.
Then you move to the next set of holes and do the same.I used a lighter weight PVC (class 200) than schedule 40 because it saved
about 20 pounds.Once the conduit was attached I used a snake to pull a line for each wire
and pulled the wires. I was also redoing all my wiring and lights at the
same time.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:39 PM, John Stevenson wrote:
Skip,
I left that job to the boatyard. The method was similar to what you are
considering, but I decided to let the guys who have done this many times
have the job.Basically you drill holes in the mast wall for the pop-rivets then drill a
second set holes slightly off-set from the pop-rivet holes. Slide the
conduit with wires into the mast, then run a wire hook (e.g. coat hanger)
into the mast through the first of the secondary holes, grab the conduit
and
pull it tight against the mast wall. Drill a hole in the conduit through
the pop-rivet hole, then secure the conduit with a pop-rivet. Move on to
the
next and repeat the process until the conduit is secured from bottom to
top. Then fill the secondary holes with more pop-rivets or self-taping
screws.
Some people recommend pre-drilling the pop-rivet holes in the conduit (to
avoid drilling into the wires), but that requires precise measurement. Not
sure which approach the boatyard used on my mast.On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:00 PM, skipmac wrote:
@john stevenson wrote:
You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.Hi John,
Am doing the conversion to 4 internal halyards and also wanted to pull
conduit for the wires. Your website mentioned you pop riveted theconduit
to the mast which was also my plan but so far have not come up with a
simple
sounding method to do so.
Running the wires into the conduit and pushing that up the mast (yes it’s
out of the boat) no problem but how to drill holes through the mast andinto
the conduit with having a trained muskrat to run up the inside of the
mast
to hold the conduit in place while drilling?
The best idea I have so far is to drill a couple of initial holes to run
a
line inside the mast, around the conduit, back out the hole and tie off
to
capture the conduit and hold it in place. Then drill the rest of the
holes
and rivet in place. So, how did you do it?
Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
What diameter PVC? My sticks are out and waiting for updating.
Adam Silverstein
-iPhoneOn Nov 11, 2010, at 2:43 AM, “Patrick “Peaboy” Walters” wrote:
I also had the yard attach the conduit. They used two sets of rivets side by
side.
You use a “hanger” to pull on the PVC via one hole and rivet the other.
Then you move to the next set of holes and do the same.I used a lighter weight PVC (class 200) than schedule 40 because it saved
about 20 pounds.Once the conduit was attached I used a snake to pull a line for each wire
and pulled the wires. I was also redoing all my wiring and lights at the
same time.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:39 PM, John Stevenson wrote:
Skip,
I left that job to the boatyard. The method was similar to what you are
considering, but I decided to let the guys who have done this many times
have the job.Basically you drill holes in the mast wall for the pop-rivets then drill a
second set holes slightly off-set from the pop-rivet holes. Slide the
conduit with wires into the mast, then run a wire hook (e.g. coat hanger)
into the mast through the first of the secondary holes, grab the conduit
and
pull it tight against the mast wall. Drill a hole in the conduit through
the pop-rivet hole, then secure the conduit with a pop-rivet. Move on to
the
next and repeat the process until the conduit is secured from bottom to
top. Then fill the secondary holes with more pop-rivets or self-taping
screws.
Some people recommend pre-drilling the pop-rivet holes in the conduit (to
avoid drilling into the wires), but that requires precise measurement. Not
sure which approach the boatyard used on my mast.On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:00 PM, skipmac wrote:
@john stevenson wrote:
You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.Hi John,
Am doing the conversion to 4 internal halyards and also wanted to pull
conduit for the wires. Your website mentioned you pop riveted theconduit
to the mast which was also my plan but so far have not come up with a
simple
sounding method to do so.
Running the wires into the conduit and pushing that up the mast (yes it’s
out of the boat) no problem but how to drill holes through the mast andinto
the conduit with having a trained muskrat to run up the inside of the
mast
to hold the conduit in place while drilling?
The best idea I have so far is to drill a couple of initial holes to run
a
line inside the mast, around the conduit, back out the hole and tie off
to
capture the conduit and hold it in place. Then drill the rest of the
holes
and rivet in place. So, how did you do it?
Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
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It will totally depend on the size of the wires you’re running.
I was pulling fully insulated wires (i.e., not individual primary wires) and
I used 1-1/2″ PVC. I was able to find the class 200 at Lowe’s. There are
some pics of us putting the conduit together here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/deepplaya/tags/systemselectrical/The picture with the wires and the foam on them is the old original wiring.
-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Adamlaw wrote:
What diameter PVC? My sticks are out and waiting for updating.
Adam Silverstein
-iPhoneOn Nov 11, 2010, at 2:43 AM, “Patrick “Peaboy” Walters” <
> wrote:I also had the yard attach the conduit. They used two sets of rivets side
by
side.
You use a “hanger” to pull on the PVC via one hole and rivet the other.
Then you move to the next set of holes and do the same.I used a lighter weight PVC (class 200) than schedule 40 because it saved
about 20 pounds.Once the conduit was attached I used a snake to pull a line for each wire
and pulled the wires. I was also redoing all my wiring and lights at the
same time.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 7:39 PM, John Stevenson <
>wrote:
Skip,
I left that job to the boatyard. The method was similar to what you are
considering, but I decided to let the guys who have done this many times
have the job.Basically you drill holes in the mast wall for the pop-rivets then drill
a
second set holes slightly off-set from the pop-rivet holes. Slide the
conduit with wires into the mast, then run a wire hook (e.g. coathanger)
into the mast through the first of the secondary holes, grab the conduit
and
pull it tight against the mast wall. Drill a hole in the conduitthrough
the pop-rivet hole, then secure the conduit with a pop-rivet. Move on to
the
next and repeat the process until the conduit is secured from bottom to
top. Then fill the secondary holes with more pop-rivets or self-taping
screws.
Some people recommend pre-drilling the pop-rivet holes in the conduit(to
avoid drilling into the wires), but that requires precise measurement.
Not
sure which approach the boatyard used on my mast.
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:00 PM, skipmac
wrote:
@john stevenson wrote:
You can convert to internal halyards without pulling the mast, but it
is
advisable to put all the electrical wires in a conduit. something
Pearson
did not do on at least the early models. That will require pulling the
stick. I always convert simple projects into complex ones.Hi John,
Am doing the conversion to 4 internal halyards and also wanted to pull
conduit for the wires. Your website mentioned you pop riveted theconduit
to the mast which was also my plan but so far have not come up with a
simple
sounding method to do so.
Running the wires into the conduit and pushing that up the mast (yes
it’s
out of the boat) no problem but how to drill holes through the mast and
into
the conduit with having a trained muskrat to run up the inside of the
mast
to hold the conduit in place while drilling?
The best idea I have so far is to drill a couple of initial holes to
run
a
line inside the mast, around the conduit, back out the hole and tie off
to
capture the conduit and hold it in place. Then drill the rest of the
holes
and rivet in place. So, how did you do it?
Thanks
Skip_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
_______________________________________________
maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
-
Re: Replacing the Wire/Rope sheaves
This is probably not necessary, although I did replace my sheaves. As long
as you don’t go smaller than 7/16″ on the halyards and stay with external
halyards, they should ride on the rope portion of the sheave without
excessive wear. I was concerned about chafe on the rope by the gap at the
rope portion of the sheave. Jack & Patricia Tyler on Whoosh cruised the
Caribbean for 2 years, made 2 crossings of the Atlantic and are now in Oz
with all rope halyards on the existing wire/rope sheaves and report no chafe
problems on their halyards. They did not go with internal halyards, so the
rope is supported on two sheaves. I still would go with rope sheaves for
internal halyards.On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Chuck Ruble wrote:
Wire sheave at the mast head may need to be swapped for a proper rope
sheave. The sheave grove shape can cause the rope to jam in the more
v-shaped sheave causing excessive wear._______________________________________________
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—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
_______________________________________________
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