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My next project is a shaft lock to prevent the shaft and V-drive from spinning while sailing. It doesn’t bother me so much below 6 knots or so, but upwards of 8 knots it sounds like I have another motor running down there!
Tor, I know you have experience with the Shaft-Lok, and I’m exchanging info with them at this time. Based on your previous comments that I read, sounds like you’ve had a learning curve with this equipment which I’d love to capitalize upon if you are willing to share. I don’t know the first thing about the subject, and do not have the remnants of the old shaft locking equipment aboard (apparently removed by the PO). I read that you installed the Shaft Lok on the ‘jack shaft’…I’m assuming this is the 1″ shaft from the transmission to the V-drive. And I’m not averse to cutting an access hole in the cabin sole to access the Shaft Lok.
Any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated!
David
Blue Moon, #189 -
David,
Yes to all of that. I did install my Shaft Lok on the 1″ jack
shaft – the only sensible place in our boats, I believe – and
(better late than never) I did cut a small access hatch in the
cabin sole above it. My second unit has performed so well so far
that I suspect I got an off-day unit the first time. In any case,
the owner, Ken Nigel, is extremely helpful and accommodating,
ready and willing to guide you live by cell phone in the middle
of an installation, advise by email anytime, and ship parts
abroad quickly if needed.Since I don’t know of any viable shaft-locking alternative short
of changing transmissions, I expect you’ll be happy with the
Shaft Lok. As you get into the ordering and installation, feel
free to pick my meagre brain for any info I might have to share,
always remembering that the real authority on this is Ken Nigel.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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I shall wait with bated breath.
đ
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Hey Tor,
You got my curiosity up. To put the Shaft-loc on the jack shaft, did you have to dissemble the jack shaft? I installed one on the prop shaft between the flange at the v-drive and the PSS shaft seal. Required the 1.5″ model versus the 1″ model you used. Difficult to reach but actually plenty of room once it’s on the shaft.
Prop shaft turns at half the speed of jack shaft. Don’t really know if that’s an issue.
Alternatively, a feathering or folding prop would work. Also, from what I’ve read, the Warner velvet drive transmission is okay with freewheeling. Maybe not the other transmissions.
Quent -
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Quent,
You have to disconnect any shaft to slide on the Shaft Lok
mechanism. I chose the jackshaft in part because I could do the
installation in the water. (I suppose you could back off and
re-connect the prop shaft in the water, too, but I’m not sure of
that and it didn’t seem like something I’d want to attempt.) I
believe you’re correct regarding the faster-turning jackshaft. In
truth I never thought of it before, but it certainly must require
slowing down the boat more to engage the Shaft Lok than if the
unit is mounted on the slower-moving prop shaft. Good point.Even if a transmission is OK freewheeling (because it
self-lubricates without the engine running), I wouldn’t want the
racket while I’m sailing, especially from the V-drive. My first
preference would be one of the transmissions that locks in
reverse once the engine is shut down. Frankly, if I had thought
of it when I first bought my boat and repowered her, I’d have
gone that route, obviating the need for an external shaft lock
altogether. Of course, a feathering or folding prop will also
solve the freewheeling problem without actually locking the
shaft, except perhaps momentarily (which I can do if I shut off
my engine in reverse). All of these alternatives make sense at
the right time and/or the right budget. But since my tranny won’t
stay locked in gear and is too new and healthy to replace, and
since I haven’t bitten the bullet and bought a $3000-plus
MaxProp, Silverheels gets along with the Shaft Lok. It’s not the
ideal, but it works.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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For general information, below is the reply I most recently received from Ken Nigel, of Shaft-Loc:
We received five beautiful photos and boat informationâŚnice work! Yes, the information confirms the Mod II EL unit is the proper choice.
The Mod II EL unit can be placed on either shaft.
A. HOSE This has nothing to do with the Shaft Lok but in photo #1 (attached) the hose in lower right center of the picture looks crimped a bit. My take on that situation is that it will weaken further and close off completely. Think about replacing that hose sooner rather than later. Anne and I lived on Sea Ya II for 6 months a year for 8 years⌠http://www.shaftlok.com/MacGregor_65.htm
B. The propeller shaft photo shows the packing nut. Having the Shaft Lok unit here would make servicing the packing gland difficult. Plus this area may produce some sea water fine spray at times.
C. The V Drive shaft is higher out of the bilge area and it seems to have a full length keyway which could be used for one of the Shaft Lok stainless set screwsâŚmaking the installation a bit easier. Also, the Mod II EL 1â bore is $621 and the 1 ½â is $819. Both unit components are in stock and will ship in 2 to 3 days after receipt of funds.
D. A full scale drawing is also attached. Making a simple cardboard template may help you with the installation layout. The Mod II EL unit does not have to be in a vertical position. It can be mounted at 12 Oâclock, 11 Oâ clock or 9 Oâclock or any angle, even upside down (but that would mean issues for routing the cable or locking the unit with the S.S.Locking System.) Keep in mind that the ATB (Anti-Torque Bracket) needs to be at 90 degrees to the force (parallel with the long axis of the name plate) generated by the locked propeller while sailing.
E. Shipping via: United States Postal Service Two Day Priority Mail, insured with tracking number is $39.65. UPS is $37.58 insured and tracking with 3 to 4 days enroute. Both include $10 for Shaft Lok delivery to the carrier.
Fair Winds,
Ken Nigel
Shaft Lok Inc.
New Berlin, WI
1 262 786 6800 -
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FWIW, I have a Martec Slipstream three-blade folding prop and I love it. Performance under sails is dramatically improved. There is absolutely nothing to snag a lobsta pot-line under sail. I suffer no performance penalty in forward and have no complaints with reverse. I still have my shaft brake rotor but I removed the calipers. I no longer need them. I think I paid about $2500 for the prop. A big prop like what the 424 needs is a custom order from Martec. I think you can buy them at a discount from Defender.
http://www.martec-props.com/info_Slipstream.htm
You should be able to remove the jack-shaft by unbolting it from the engine and sliding it forward, then sideways out of the way. I’m not sure that the jack shaft is the right place to put a brake however because any water that gets past the packing gland will splash on the brake. I suppose you might get away with this if you have a dripless box however.
Rich
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Hey Rich, I have the Martec Autostream S1 . Just curious, the PO spent a
lot of time messing with his old fixed prop and working with Martec they
came up with …19″ dia x 10 Pitch Left Hand. So far I can’t complain
about the boats performance under power but I haven’t really had to put the
pedal to the metal. What size and pitch is your prop???
Thanks,
KenOn Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 9:48 AM, re.carter— via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:FWIW, I have a Martec Slipstream three-blade folding prop and I love it.
Performance under sails is dramatically improved. There is absolutely
nothing to snag a lobsta pot-line under sail. I suffer no performance
penalty in forward and have no complaints with reverse. I still have my
shaft brake rotor but I removed the calipers. I no longer need them. I
think I paid about $2500 for the prop. A big prop like what the 424 needs
is a custom order from Martec. I think you can buy them at a discount from
Defender.http://www.martec-props.com/info_Slipstream.htm
You should be able to remove the jack-shaft by unbolting it from the
engine and sliding it forward, then sideways out of the way. I’m not sure
that the jack shaft is the right place to put a brake however because any
water that gets past the packing gland will splash on the brake. I suppose
you might get away with this if you have a dripless box however.Rich
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Ken
I have a 75HP engine and a 2.5:1 gear reduction in my V-drive so my experience might be different than yours. I have an 18.5x12LH.
http://www.richardcarter.net/repower/Propeller.htmlYou should put the pedal to the metal every once in a while. It blows out the carbon buildup in your engine. Your engine should push the prop all the way up to the redline. If it doesn’t, your prop is too big. Having an oversized prop is not good for your engine. I get near hull speed at about 80% of my redline (7.5kts @ 3000RPM). More throttle just pushes the stern wave up the transom for little speed gain. At most I get 7.8 kts at redline (3800RPM) but it sucks down the diesel and makes a racket. This prop seems to be a good match for me. You might not get full speed if your engine is smaller or if your prop is mismatched. Assuming that your engine redlines at about 2400 RPM, you don’t want to go to a longer prop blade because it will cavitate at high speed. 19″ sounds about right to me. Your pitch is less than what I have but your engine may be smaller. See if you can reach redline at full throttle on a calm day. If you have no problem but you’re only doing 7.0 KTS, your pitch may be too little. If however you’re struggling to get even near redline, your prop may have too much bite. Black smoke at full throttle and poor performance are a sure sign of a prop that is too big.
Rich
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Just a short report to let those that are interested that the Shaft-Lok is installed on Blue Moon and seems to do the trick. I sailed Sunday at speeds to 8 knots with no shaft rotation and no noise. Amazing how quiet it is without all that racket. I had to slow the shaft considerably for the lock to work, the major downside of a ‘lock’ vs a ‘brake’. I found the best technique to be to slow the boat till the shaft stopped, then fall off a bit to speed up, and as the shaft starts to turn, push in the knob.
Installation was straightforward on the jack shaft. Access is pretty easy by pulling up the floor panel over the V-drive. I had to fiberglass in a small block to the hull to accept the anti-torque bracket, but nothing to that. I did not cut a hole in the cabin sole for access. Overall I’m happy with the product, though my experience is admittedly limited to one outing.
David Tye
Blue Moon, #189
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