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Similar arrangement on Sea Duty, my deck mount is further aft, tracks on the cabin top and running back stays.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Jack P Clarke < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hello Everybody,
I wanted to post the pics of the solent stay that came with Xanadu when I purchased her. To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
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Many of us copied the deck fitting Hal put on Sea Duty
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Chuck Ruble < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Similar arrangement on Sea Duty, my deck mount is further aft, tracks on the cabin top and running back stays.
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Jack P Clarke < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hello Everybody,
I wanted to post the pics of the solent stay that came with Xanadu when I purchased her. To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Just curious, by mounting the stay so far aft behind the anchor locker and the mast a couple feet forward of the cutter version, isn’t the staysail pretty small? I assume that the inner forestay is parallel to the headstay, perhaps it is not?
Is the adjustment provided by the tracks really useful in trimming the staysail, or would stationary blocks work OK?
Quent -
I attempted to upload these to the web site for you, but the site shows the links as broken. I think Pat has to manually flip some file permissions or something.
https://www.pearson424.org/gallery/album14Anyway, they’ll show there eventually I’m sure. 😉
-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “Jack P Clarke” <>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:56 PM
To:
Subject: Solent stayHello Everybody,
I wanted to post the pics of the solent stay that came with Xanadu when I purchased her. The head is attached just below the forstay and the bottom is attached on the stem head. It connects with a fitting that has a lever action called a hiemlim lever, I think or something like that. It conects in about 30 seconds and when not in use it secures by the mast out of the way. The only sail that I have for it is a hank on storm sail that has never been used. The sheets for the storm sail run through two blocks mounted on the coach roof inboard of the grab rails just forward of the mast. They go from there in a direct line to the sheet winches in the cockpit. In the pics I didn’t have the storm sail hoisted, but I lead the sheets through the blocks and to the winches.
I hope the pics turn out all right, this is the first time I have done this. If you need more pics that are clearer, let me know and I
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Quent,
Yes the staysails are small. What Chuck has on Sea Duty (and I think Tor and Bob have on their boats) is an inner forestay parallel to the forestay. They have running backstays to compensate for the tension from the inner forestay. Those of us who have implemented a Solent Stay do not have runners as the Solent Stay is attached to the mast near the masthead and shares the back stay tension with the fore stay. The advantage of the Solent Stay is the elimination of the runners. The disadvantage is generally you can't set a stay sail on a Solent Stay along with the Genoa. You can do it, but there is no way to equalize the tension of the two fore stays. Only one of them will take the full load. Runners and a lower attachment point for the inner forestay normally allows both sails to be set and trimmed.
IMO a stationary block is fine for this application unless you have the staysail on a furler. I've gone with a sail track as in Jack's and Chuck's pics primarily to spread the load and also to allow for my normal miss-placement of rigging.John
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:21 PM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Just curious, by mounting the stay so far aft behind the anchor locker and the mast a couple feet forward of the cutter version, isn't the staysail pretty small? I assume that the inner forestay is parallel to the headstay, perhaps it is not?
Is the adjustment provided by the tracks really useful in trimming the staysail, or would stationary blocks work OK?
Quent—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Just to add a bit of perspective on the Solent Stay – which didn’t get it’s name by accident – once some of us sailed over to Europe, it became pretty obvious that this is a commonly chosen alternative to the more common (to North American eyes) parallel inner stay. It is very common to see larger boats, especially those with large foresail areas, offered with a Solent Stay option and/or converted to that by their owners. I’m thinking especially of the large Jeanneaus, Beneteaus, Bavarias with their humongous foretriangles but also Rustlers, Rasseys and other high-end boats, as well. Most of these boats have higher tensioned rigs (due to all the shrouds being in line with and aft of the mast), all sail control lines led to the cockpit, and with a rig that keeps moving the CE further and further forward as the rig is reefed down.
The reasons for the Solent Stay preference seem to be not only the lesser cost and complexity (and the fact that this is seen as a conventional choice) but also the weather and conditions in which European sailing is done. Once the boat is hard pressed under reduced sail – and especially as these boats heel well over and lose some of their rudder’s effectiveness – the owner wants a quick way (for a short period of time, since distances sailed over there aren’t usually terribly long) to move the CE aft, lower it (relative to the rising position of the reefed genoa) and put the boat back on its feet. The Solent is the simple way to do this…and no place is more represented of this weather and the circumstances described than the Solent area of Britain.
Before ever seeing a Solent Stay first-hand, I chose it as a way to reef WHOOSH way down offshore when needed without the add’l complexity of the staysail. A compromise, to be sure – but one that has worked well so far when we needed it to. FWIW Brian Toss offered the opinion that attaching the Solent Stay within 3′ of the masthead attachment point on our boats should be fine. Given that our main masts seem to have been designed in Sherwood Forest and are so heavily stayed (for being so ‘stumpy’ by today’s standards), that made sense to me.
Jack
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Hi John-
We copied you and Jack with a removable Solent stay. With a Hood Furling mast, there is no mast bend and stay tension is pretty balanced.
We also have aself tacking track that was originially intended for the staysail. That worked out well so we had a jib made for the furler that is self tacking. This is great for going to windward in good breeze, but leaves us with no good light air sail except for the diesel.
I’ve been thinking of either moving the headstay forward to the end of the anchor roller platform and adding a second furler at the solent stay, maybe moving that forward to where the forestay now attaches. The objective being to mount a light air genoa forward of the self tacking jib.
Or maybe just get a drifter or assymetric on some temporary furler forward of the headstay? But I really don’t like spending time on the pointy end when sailing.
Granted these kinds of ponderings only affect me as the season winds down, and I’m not actually sailing enough. I realize that there is risk in moving the center of effort forward, and I’ve got the sloop that is ketch without a mizzen and I don;t want to creata a lee helm.
Any advice?
Quent -
Quent,
Before substantially altering your rig you might consider consulting one or two professional riggers, maybe even a naval architect. Knowledgeable input at the beginning will increase the likelihood of a happy ending.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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“Or maybe just get a drifter or assymetric on some temporary furler forward of the headstay? But I really don’t like spending time on the pointy end when sailing.
Granted these kinds of ponderings only affect me as the season winds down, and I’m not actually sailing enough. I realize that there is risk in moving the center of effort forward, and I’ve got the sloop that is ketch without a mizzen and I don;t want to creata a lee helm.
Any advice?”Quent:
One of the items I purchased at Annapolis was a single line furler from Colligo Marine. I will use this to fly a drifter/gennaker . I will probably use Dynex Dux instead of wire in the luff, which should make the storage easier. I haven’t decide if I will attach the tack to the anchor roller or possibly further out on some sort of extendable bowsprit.
http://www.colligomarine.com/Furlers/Roller-Furler.htm
Paul
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Quent:
One way I could categorize the boat owners I’ve met while cruising would be to say they fell into two camps: those who had staysails/solent set-ups that were permanently installed (e.g. a typical inner stay with a furler attached) and who were thinking of removing the foil, drum, furling line et al. to give them a better shaped (and even built) sail…and those without a permanent set-up that were thinking of doing the reverse. I’m not sure there IS a right answer to this, except to consider how and where you sail, and what your boat needs that it isn’t already getting from the current rig. If looking at it from a cost standpoint, you might tally up the additional costs (don’t forget recutting or replacing the sail) and ask yourself how many times you’ll be using that ‘improvement’.
For your double-headed sloop rig, I would be very wary of moving the forestay further forward: the CE moves further forward for normal sailing and there are some structural issues you’ll need to consider, which usually = cost. By contrast a furling light air MPS/Asyn or Drifter would be simpler, lighter, less expensive and – cleverly rigged – easy to work without going up to the ballroom at the pointy end of the boat for a dance…but of course, none of these benefits will help you when on the wind. OTOH it sounds like you are already pleased with how your rig performs on that point of sail.
I don’t have a lot of experience tapping expertise for rig redesign but, based on what experience I have had, I’d rate the ‘expert opinions’ available for rig questions this way:
— NA’s: very much luck of the draw when it comes to addressing specific rig changes on a specific boat with an existing rig; I would look for someone who specializes on rig mods and expect a substantial hourly consultation fee
— Riggers: the two I’ve spent a lot of time with were very wary of drilling down into the details of my existing rig; they weren’t trained for that kind of analysis and preferred to offer ‘seat of the pants’ commentary which was free and perhaps worth what I paid for it
— Sailmakers: some of these folks seem like witches with special powers; I’ve found far more insightful comments about rigs from them than I ever expected. If you already have a relationship with a reputable sailmaker, I’d start there if you want to re-evaluate your rig.Jack
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Quent,
I think Jack was right. You might do better talking to a knowledgeable sailmaker or two rather than riggers & naval architects.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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