Suggestions Encouraged

[Anonymous]

Dear Friends. I have the original westerbeke and the walter velvet drive. I need I think a new alternator. Any suggestions on what I should use to replace? After looking at the Defender catalog I see there are many choices. Many kind thanks.

Rich, I was wondering, where do you put your generator when in use, and when stored? DO you connect to the rear 120V receptacle? Thanks.

Best to all.

Thatcher
S/V Wavemaker

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[madsailor]

Hi Thatcher,

The original is a 55 amp alternator.  If you just want a replacement and you're not going to go nuts with regulators (i.e. you have flooded cell batteries and no external regulator), a Delco 65 amp alternator is a direct replacement.  “What?”, you say, “No fancy pants marine alternator?”  Well, no.  The one you have isn't a marine alternator.  Moreover, if you don't expect to flood the engine compartment, a standard alternator will work just fine.  Sparking isn't an issue, unless, of course, you have a small leak in your high pressure diesel fuel lines that sprays directly on the brushes of your alternator. 

So, save money and aggravation.  Get a direct Delco replacement.

Bob

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Dear Friends. I have the original westerbeke and the walter velvet drive. I need I think a new alternator. Any suggestions on what I should use to replace? After looking at the Defender catalog I see there are many choices. Many kind thanks.
 
Rich, I was wondering, where do you put your generator when in use, and when stored? DO you connect to the rear 120V receptacle? Thanks.
 
Best to all.
 
Thatcher
S/V Wavemaker

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[Anonymous]

Thanks Bob. What do you mean by flooded cell batteries?
I have a rather complicated arrangement with a wind generator that charges 24/7 and a solar panel. Also if I compete in a long distance race I want the engine to be IOC “OK” when they survey.

Any other suggestions?

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[RichCarter]

Thatcher
I don’t know which engine you have, the W60 or W58? This will make quite a difference when selecting an alternator. There is some information posted here.
http://www.richardcarter.net/repower/AccessoryMount.html

When I had a generator on my boat, I permanently mounted it on the doghouse for the main cabin companionway. Mounting was done by removing the doghouse and bolting it with shims on then outboard fasteners to level it off. If you do this, make sure you overdrill, fill, and redrill to keep water out of the plywood laminate. I previously mounted one just forward of my mast on my old sailboat. That might work too, but you don’t want exhaust getting sucked below through open hatches.

I made a canvass cover to protect it when not in use. When needed, I ran an extension cord down the deck to plug it into the 30A plug in the cockpit. Putting it ondeck kept the noise down in the cockpit.

Having the generator ondeck obstructed the helmsman’s view somewhat, but this wasn’t much of a problem. The main issue was getting fuel for the generator. The tank was not removable so I had to tote a gas can around. Even if you have unmixed fuel in your dinghy fuel tank, there’s no convenient way to get it into the generator tank. Another issue was corrosion to the generator. The thing was never made to survive in a marine environment. They are cheap however and you can replace it every five years or so if needed.

I sent a letter to Honda and suggested that they make a unit that has a removable tank and is designed to be mounted on a boat deck, but they never responded.

Rich

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[Anonymous]

Thatcher/Rich,

I guess we all find our own ways of dealing with these things. My new Honda generator is purring away as I write on the starboard aft cockpit seat. I put it there for several reasons: (1) It is adjacent to the boat’s shore power plug fitting, so it’s connected by the short adapter cord only. (2) It is the most out-of-the-way corner of the cockpit anyway, the stern boarding gate being offset to port. (3) The generator is shielded all around by the high cockpit combing so that my anchorage neighbors have to really pay attention to hear it at all. To me this is an especially important consideration, minimizing the disturbance to the peace of the harbor I’m sharing. (4) A boat at anchor usually has the wind on the nose. Putting the generator anyplace other than aft seems like an invitation for the exhaust to pour into any and all open hatches. Yuck! (5) It is a quick lift-&-lower movement to stow the generator in a cockpit locker. Since these machines are not made for a marine environment, putting them away, covered, when preparing to get underway seems to make sense.

Note that I long ago raised the cockpit drain thru-hulls above the waterline, so any heavier-than-air exhaust gasses that settle to the cockpit sole will drain overboard.

Of course, the down side of my portable generator placement is that it is noisiest in the cockpit. (There’s always a trade-off!) I do my best to run the thing when I’m going to be belowdecks anyway.

So, that’s another point of view. To each of us his own!

Tor
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[madsailor]

Hi Thatcher,

There are three kinds of batteries in general use now, flooded cell, which is the kind that's been around for a hundred years with caps you remove to add or check electrolyte levels (or not for 'maintenance free'), AGM, or Advanced Glass Mat technology that uses a liquid impregnated glass mat for the electrolyte and is maintenance free, and finally gel cells which use a gel as the electrolyte that can sustain the outgassing from the charge cycle and can reabsorb it in the discharge cycle. 

The last two are able to be mounted in any position.  They also both have differing charging cycles so that one regulator or regulator setting will essentially cook a battery of the other type.  They also have differing energy densities, with gel being the highest, and AGM the lowest (I think). This goes for flooded cells as well. Accept and float charge voltages vary as well. I know from experience that an AGM charge cycle will cook a flooded cell battery.
 
To meet the SOLAS/ORC specs all batteries MUST be tied down or otherwise restrained.  Battery types are not considered and flooded cell batteries should be in a box that will contain the acid in the event of a breach.  The other two types are unlikely to leak, but a box is still a good idea.

Costs vary a great deal, too – with flooded cells being the least expensive and gel cells being the most (in general).  AGMs are between but closer to gel cells in price.

As far as longevity is concerned, flooded cells don't handle deep discharges very well.  Each discharge below 50% shortens the life of the battery.  AGMs are the most forgiving.  You can discharge them entirely and leave them for months.  Recharging them will bring them back to life with no noticable difference.  Gel cells fall inbetween – they can be discharged totally but suffer little degradation.  Flooded cells when taken care of will last 6 or more years, which in my humble opinion is on par with AGMs and gel cells – they might, and I say might, last a couple of years longer.  It all depends on how they're charged over their lifetime.  Under charging gels and AGMs is really bad for them, as is over charging.  Gels are more suceptible to over charging than the other two, but AGMs are pretty sensitive, too.

So, if you have flooded cells and all your equipment is set up to charge flooded cells and you take care of the electrolyte levels and you have the batteries strapped into position I'd say stick with flooded cells.  There is nothing inherently wrong with them other than their need for regular maintenance.  With a constant charging source like a wind generator/solar panel combination you should be totally good to go.

Each type of battery has its pluses and minuses.  I have all AGMs because the charger (Freedom 2000) is pre-programmed for AGMs and I'm not inclined to change it.  I need to update my alternator regulators to be set to AGM voltages.  The solar controller is also set for AGMs so it just makes sense to use them.  I have 3 – 4Ds for the house bank and 2 – Group 31s as emergency start/house bank.

Regards,

Bob

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Thanks Bob. What do you mean by flooded cell batteries?
I have a rather complicated arrangement with a wind generator that charges 24/7 and a solar panel. Also if I compete in a long distance race I want the engine to be IOC “OK” when they survey.
 
Any other suggestions?
 
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[Anonymous]

Rich this was very helpful, thank you.

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[Anonymous]

Thanks Tor.

If properly vented with the blower line, do you think one could install it inside the aft locker?

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[Anonymous]

I bought one too while lurking watching this thread.
I don’t think you’d want to do that because the thing is air cooled. You’d have to ventilate fresh air to it, and get the hot exhaust out. Plus it’s pull start, and you’d have to adjust the choke.

It’s suitcase sized so you could certainly store it there, but I think it’s more trouble than it’s worth to try and mount it.

At Catalina last week, they were EVERYWHERE. Lots of them are on the back inches off the water on swim steps. We saw one suspended on a rope off the roller furling.

I put mine in the same place as Tor, and I’ll add that that spot’s not in the way of opening any of the lazzarettes

On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:37 AM, Thatcher A. Stone wrote:

Quote:

Thanks Tor.

If properly vented with the blower line, do you think one could install it inside the aft locker?

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[Anonymous]

Thatcher,

Since you ask, sure, I suppose there’s a way to safely install a portable generator like the Honda in the lazarette, but it would take some thoughtful consideration. You’d probably have to install an electric starter and maybe some kind of remote choke linkage. It’s an air-cooled machine, so it will definitely need plenty of fresh air through intake vents, and also an exhaust vent for the heat. And, of course, you’d have to plumb the engine’s exhaust out through the transom via a hose. Still, it seems to me there is the possibility of gasoline fumes, CO2 and/or whatever else the generator emits polluting that whole space under and around the cockpit, down to the bilges and from there throughout the entire hull. Might be necessary to seal the lazarette compartment entirely to be safe, but I’m guessing. Others among us will know more. In any case, you’d want to be able to pull the generator out easily for access to the steering system just forward of that space.

Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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[Anonymous]

Thatcher,

I have a rebuilt (never re-used) 120 amp small case alternator if you are interested.

Cada
Jubilee #100

Jul 6, 2009 05:19:12 AM, () wrote:

Dear Friends. I have the original westerbeke and the walter velvet drive. I need I think a new alternator. Any suggestions on what I should use to replace? After looking at the Defender catalog I see there are many choices. Many kind thanks.

Rich, I was wondering, where do you put your generator when in use, and when stored? DO you connect to the rear 120V receptacle? Thanks.

Best to all.

Thatcher
S/V Wavemaker

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