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Getting geared up to make an offer on a 424 named Bank Robber in Annapolis
MD.Its a bit of a project boat and I need a good survey to negotiate with. A
previous buyer had made an offer and had a “survey” done, but backed away
when the hull was found to be blistered. I’ve read the report from that
survey and there was no mention made of the romex wiring and household
breaker box being used with a hard wired shore power line running through
an open hole to the deck inside one of the gear boxes in the cabin…. I
need a better surveyor.Can anyone recommend a good Baltimore/Annapolis surveyor?
Also, perhaps the owner is on this forum… so I think I should ask. Does
anyone know if the owner of Bank Robber in the Annapolis/Baltimore area is
subscribed? I’m working through the broker.
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maillist mailing listhttps://pearson424.org/mailman/listinfo/maillist_pearson424.org
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You can find the registered owner of any US Documented vessel in
the USCG database online. Just go to uscg.mil or whatever they’re
using and search around for that database. You might have to do
some additional searching online to find the owner’s phone number
once you have the name & address from the CG site.FYI, I negotiated a “good” price on a semi-project P424 nine
years ago and now have nearly twice as much into her as she’d
ever fetch if I were to sell her – and that’s counting my labor
at $0.02/hr. Just sayin’; these are great old boats, but they are
old and, once long-neglected, will never be “finished.” Be sure
you’re going to enjoy the process, amigo. It can be very
gratifying and educational, but it won’t save you money, let
alone time. If anything, a fixer-upper is probably the most
expensive way to get a cruising sailboat, IMHO.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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The best surveyor I know is Jim Diaz. He travels to Annapolis if needed.
On Nov 1, 2015 11:44 AM, “Silverheels via maillist”
wrote:Quote:You can find the registered owner of any US Documented vessel in
the USCG database online. Just go to uscg.mil or whatever they’re
using and search around for that database. You might have to do
some additional searching online to find the owner’s phone number
once you have the name & address from the CG site.FYI, I negotiated a “good” price on a semi-project P424 nine
years ago and now have nearly twice as much into her as she’d
ever fetch if I were to sell her – and that’s counting my labor
at $0.02/hr. Just sayin’; these are great old boats, but they are
old and, once long-neglected, will never be “finished.” Be sure
you’re going to enjoy the process, amigo. It can be very
gratifying and educational, but it won’t save you money, let
alone time. If anything, a fixer-upper is probably the most
expensive way to get a cruising sailboat, IMHO.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
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+1 on Tor’s comment. I also bought a semi-project boat (no major defects,
just needed lots of upgrading for long distance cruising and living
onboard).A well equipped Moody 42, in the slip next to me, just sold for less than
$20k more than I payed for Sarah in 2000. This is a very well equipped
boat that was new the year of my purchase. I have invested much more than
$50K in upgrades to Sarah (electronics, engine, galley, etc.). The only
advantage to a project boat is you get to spread the cost over several
years reducing the amount you may have to borrow from the bank. You also
become very familiar with the equipment and mods you implement – probably
more familiar than you might want.
So, IMO, a project boat is a viable method to acquire a cruising boat, but
as Tor asserted – it is not the least expensive method.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
Sarah’s BlogOn Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:You can find the registered owner of any US Documented vessel in
the USCG database online. Just go to uscg.mil or whatever they’re
using and search around for that database. You might have to do
some additional searching online to find the owner’s phone number
once you have the name & address from the CG site.FYI, I negotiated a “good” price on a semi-project P424 nine
years ago and now have nearly twice as much into her as she’d
ever fetch if I were to sell her – and that’s counting my labor
at $0.02/hr. Just sayin’; these are great old boats, but they are
old and, once long-neglected, will never be “finished.” Be sure
you’re going to enjoy the process, amigo. It can be very
gratifying and educational, but it won’t save you money, let
alone time. If anything, a fixer-upper is probably the most
expensive way to get a cruising sailboat, IMHO.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
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USCG documentation database shows owner as
MICHAEL A MEYER
3518 MARRAGANSETT AVE
ANNAPOLIS, MD 21403Â
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I suspect many (if not most) of us 424 owners have had similar experiences (and expenses) renovating our boats. The one justification I claim for myself, aside from John’s excellent point that we wind up knowing every cubic inch of our vessels, is that for the most part I’ve enjoyed the projects almost as much as I’ve enjoyed the cruising. I guess that’s why I bought this boat when I did; to experiment, invent and learn, to re-make her to suit the way I sail, cruise and live aboard. Even at my $0.02/hour labor rate, I count it as time well spent, but only because I’d already done a fair amount of cruising in my life so I wasn’t constantly anxious about being in the yard instead of in the islands (and, of course, I’ve had lots of island time with Silverheels during these 9 years, too). A fixer-upper was a good personal fit at that stage of my sailing life. If I had just wanted to go cruising, though, it probably would’ve been a colossal mistake. Then it would’ve been much smarter to buy something like that Moody John mentioned.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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“There is nothing quite so satisfying as simply messing about with boats.”
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:I suspect many (if not most) of us 424 owners have had similar experiences
(and expenses) renovating our boats. The one justification I claim for
myself, aside from John’s excellent point that we wind up knowing every
cubic inch of our vessels, is that for the most part I’ve enjoyed the
projects almost as much as I’ve enjoyed the cruising. I guess that’s why I
bought this boat when I did; to experiment, invent and learn, to re-make
her to suit the way I sail, cruise and live aboard. Even at my $0.02/hour
labor rate, I count it as time well spent, but only because I’d already
done a fair amount of cruising in my life so I wasn’t constantly anxious
about being in the yard instead of in the islands (and, of course, I’ve had
lots of island time with Silverheels during these 9 years, too). A
fixer-upper was a good personal fit at that stage of my sailing life. If I
had just wanted to go cruising, though, it probably would’ve been a
colossal mistake. Then it would’ve been much smarter to buy something like
that Moody John mentioned.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Like many here, I resemble this remark…
I picked up my 424 insurance salvage – hence I don’t feel too bad spending boat bucks on electric repowers etc.
Ewan
Sent from my iPhone
Quote:On Nov 1, 2015, at 12:13, Robert Fine via maillist wrote:“There is nothing quite so satisfying as simply messing about with boats.”
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:Quote:I suspect many (if not most) of us 424 owners have had similar experiences
(and expenses) renovating our boats. The one justification I claim for
myself, aside from John’s excellent point that we wind up knowing every
cubic inch of our vessels, is that for the most part I’ve enjoyed the
projects almost as much as I’ve enjoyed the cruising. I guess that’s why I
bought this boat when I did; to experiment, invent and learn, to re-make
her to suit the way I sail, cruise and live aboard. Even at my $0.02/hour
labor rate, I count it as time well spent, but only because I’d already
done a fair amount of cruising in my life so I wasn’t constantly anxious
about being in the yard instead of in the islands (and, of course, I’ve had
lots of island time with Silverheels during these 9 years, too). A
fixer-upper was a good personal fit at that stage of my sailing life. If I
had just wanted to go cruising, though, it probably would’ve been a
colossal mistake. Then it would’ve been much smarter to buy something like
that Moody John mentioned.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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I, am also interested in this for many of the same reasons you guys are. I
enjoy it… I’m an engineer and I find the sort of work that goes with old
boats therapeutic. I intend to leave my job, summer of 2017, spend a month
retrofitting the boat and then sailing for Seattle. We will live aboard
there and start life again.My question for you all is this… given that we all have varying degrees
of capacities and marina work is stupid expensive, how does it break down
on costs in terms of DIY versus yard work. I grew up under a carpenters
roof, I’ve rebuilt everything on a car from the electronics to the block
and I’m an engineer. I am giving myself the benefit of time to get the work
done on this car… but when I see 50K spent on a boat, it makes my boots
shake a bit.If any of you guys would be willing, I’ve posted a spread sheet on google
docs that runs through my materials and time estimates. IF anyone wants to
smack me down to reality, I’ll take it. Please make any changes you see
appropriate.. I put a comment column in there for input.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DqriYrI1M0xcAvREXaJbSpY7lETqpEEYtXgbvVbipZE/edit?usp=sharing
Also, feel free to tell me to bugger off.
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 3:44 PM, ewanoleary— via maillist <
> wrote:Like many here, I resemble this remark…
I picked up my 424 insurance salvage – hence I don’t feel too bad spending
boat bucks on electric repowers etc.Ewan
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 1, 2015, at 12:13, Robert Fine via maillist <
> wrote:
“There is nothing quite so satisfying as simply messing about with
boats.”
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:I suspect many (if not most) of us 424 owners have had similar
experiences
(and expenses) renovating our boats. The one justification I claim for
myself, aside from John’s excellent point that we wind up knowing every
cubic inch of our vessels, is that for the most part I’ve enjoyed the
projects almost as much as I’ve enjoyed the cruising. I guess that’swhy I
bought this boat when I did; to experiment, invent and learn, to re-make
her to suit the way I sail, cruise and live aboard. Even at my$0.02/hour
labor rate, I count it as time well spent, but only because I’d already
done a fair amount of cruising in my life so I wasn’t constantly anxious
about being in the yard instead of in the islands (and, of course, I’vehad
lots of island time with Silverheels during these 9 years, too). A
fixer-upper was a good personal fit at that stage of my sailing life.If I
had just wanted to go cruising, though, it probably would’ve been a
colossal mistake. Then it would’ve been much smarter to buy somethinglike
Quote:Quote:that Moody John mentioned.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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You do not need to spend $50,000 if you are handy and need not all the
bells and whistles that this latest group of cruisers seems to “need” We
paid, I think at close to the top of the market value or a little under for
one of these old boats. All my work was mostly myself and a few thousand $
in parts etc. No new water makers, fancy electronics, and do da’s so
popular these days. My boat came with …water maker, do not use never
fired it up…XM satellite radio something or other …do not use. Fancy
stereo system, do not use. SS band radio, only for weather. Old Raymarine
chart plotter still works, I ain’t changing it till it breaks. Whole
holding tank plumbing shit …pulled it out and now have a bucket with 12v
vent and my wife STILL LOVES it. The point I’m making is, we bought our
boat and are using it as it is as we need. Anyone, can easily spend
thousands and thousands on things they think they need. Just use what you
got, you’ll never get your money back from all those “got to have’s” I’m a
little drunk on this rant but I hope you get the point. I’m here in the
Caribbean with very few worries on my plate.
KenOn Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Tom Heller via maillist <
> wrote:I, am also interested in this for many of the same reasons you guys are. I
enjoy it… I’m an engineer and I find the sort of work that goes with old
boats therapeutic. I intend to leave my job, summer of 2017, spend a month
retrofitting the boat and then sailing for Seattle. We will live aboard
there and start life again.My question for you all is this… given that we all have varying degrees
of capacities and marina work is stupid expensive, how does it break down
on costs in terms of DIY versus yard work. I grew up under a carpenters
roof, I’ve rebuilt everything on a car from the electronics to the block
and I’m an engineer. I am giving myself the benefit of time to get the work
done on this car… but when I see 50K spent on a boat, it makes my boots
shake a bit.If any of you guys would be willing, I’ve posted a spread sheet on google
docs that runs through my materials and time estimates. IF anyone wants to
smack me down to reality, I’ll take it. Please make any changes you see
appropriate.. I put a comment column in there for input.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DqriYrI1M0xcAvREXaJbSpY7lETqpEEYtXgbvVbipZE/edit?usp=sharing
Also, feel free to tell me to bugger off.
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 3:44 PM, ewanoleary— via maillist <
> wrote:Like many here, I resemble this remark…
I picked up my 424 insurance salvage – hence I don’t feel too bad
spending
boat bucks on electric repowers etc.
Ewan
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 1, 2015, at 12:13, Robert Fine via maillist <
> wrote:
“There is nothing quite so satisfying as simply messing about with
boats.”
On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:I suspect many (if not most) of us 424 owners have had similar
experiences
(and expenses) renovating our boats. The one justification I claim for
myself, aside from John’s excellent point that we wind up knowingevery
cubic inch of our vessels, is that for the most part I’ve enjoyed the
projects almost as much as I’ve enjoyed the cruising. I guess that’swhy I
bought this boat when I did; to experiment, invent and learn, to
re-make
her to suit the way I sail, cruise and live aboard. Even at my
$0.02/hour
labor rate, I count it as time well spent, but only because I’d
already
done a fair amount of cruising in my life so I wasn’t constantly
anxious
about being in the yard instead of in the islands (and, of course,
I’ve
had
lots of island time with Silverheels during these 9 years, too). A
fixer-upper was a good personal fit at that stage of my sailing life.If I
had just wanted to go cruising, though, it probably would’ve been a
colossal mistake. Then it would’ve been much smarter to buy somethinglike
Quote:Quote:that Moody John mentioned.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Tom,
I didn’t mean to frighten you off; only to enlighten you a little
about the reality of boat renovation. You sound eminently
qualified for this brand of fun, much more so than I was or ever
will be. I don’t know much about spreadsheets, either, but I can
pretty much guarantee that if you do virtually all the work
yourself (as I have) fully renovating and upgrading a Pearson
424, the first $50,000 can evaporate the first year – assuming
you’re frugal. At least, that’s been my 424 experience to date.
(Note: I was fitting out Silverheels for long-term live-aboard
cruising. Setting up a weekend warrior would obviously be less
expensive.)The old adage regarding boat repairs & upgrades, “Make your most
conservative guess as to how much it’ll cost and how long it’ll
take; then double the cost and triple the time” is, IMHO,
blissfully optimistic.As I said, you have to enjoy the doing. If you do and given your
skill set, then you’ll be as happy with your boat as are most of
us other owners. They’re worthy of the effort.Have fun,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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It’s very sobering to read the long list of projects that Tor has completed on Silverheels.
For myself, I’ve replaced or closed up about half of Discoverie’s through hulls, replaced most of the 12 volt, all of the network wiring, pumps, etc. I’ve replaced the plotter, water heater, windless, lights, starter motor, alternator, voltage regulator (and I could go on). Even if you have experience with this kind of work, it can easily take more money and time than you’d figure (I use a 3x for my time and a 2x for costs based on my original estimate and I’m frequently spending more of both. But when you’ve completed a project it’s peace of mind. If you’ve got the know-how and bucks for parts, this site has got an amazing collection of veteran cruisers who have done just about anything that can be done on a 424. And everyone is extremely helpful.
good luck and let us know how it turns out.
RogerQuote:On Nov 1, 2015, at 11:23 AM, Silverheels via maillist wrote:You can find the registered owner of any US Documented vessel in
the USCG database online. Just go to uscg.mil or whatever they’re
using and search around for that database. You might have to do
some additional searching online to find the owner’s phone number
once you have the name & address from the CG site.FYI, I negotiated a “good” price on a semi-project P424 nine
years ago and now have nearly twice as much into her as she’d
ever fetch if I were to sell her – and that’s counting my labor
at $0.02/hr. Just sayin’; these are great old boats, but they are
old and, once long-neglected, will never be “finished.” Be sure
you’re going to enjoy the process, amigo. It can be very
gratifying and educational, but it won’t save you money, let
alone time. If anything, a fixer-upper is probably the most
expensive way to get a cruising sailboat, IMHO.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
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Hey Roger, I saw Discoverie in Norwalk. She’s looking good!
Bob
On Nov 1, 2015 7:09 PM, “Bigger Roger via maillist”
wrote:It’s very sobering to read the long list of projects that Tor has
completed on Silverheels.For myself, I’ve replaced or closed up about half of Discoverie’s through
hulls, replaced most of the 12 volt, all of the network wiring, pumps, etc.
I’ve replaced the plotter, water heater, windless, lights, starter motor,
alternator, voltage regulator (and I could go on). Even if you have
experience with this kind of work, it can easily take more money and time
than you’d figure (I use a 3x for my time and a 2x for costs based on my
original estimate and I’m frequently spending more of both. But when you’ve
completed a project it’s peace of mind. If you’ve got the know-how and
bucks for parts, this site has got an amazing collection of veteran
cruisers who have done just about anything that can be done on a 424. And
everyone is extremely helpful.good luck and let us know how it turns out.
RogerOn Nov 1, 2015, at 11:23 AM, Silverheels via maillist <
> wrote:
Quote:You can find the registered owner of any US Documented vessel in
the USCG database online. Just go to uscg.mil or whatever they’re
using and search around for that database. You might have to do
some additional searching online to find the owner’s phone number
once you have the name & address from the CG site.FYI, I negotiated a “good” price on a semi-project P424 nine
years ago and now have nearly twice as much into her as she’d
ever fetch if I were to sell her – and that’s counting my labor
at $0.02/hr. Just sayin’; these are great old boats, but they are
old and, once long-neglected, will never be “finished.” Be sure
you’re going to enjoy the process, amigo. It can be very
gratifying and educational, but it won’t save you money, let
alone time. If anything, a fixer-upper is probably the most
expensive way to get a cruising sailboat, IMHO.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Original Message
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Thanks much Bob, Still lots to do, but progress is reasonably steady. I found several people who know a good deal about the stow-away main mast furler, and if I can get that to work so that Laurie can “raise and lowerâ€
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Yes, Ken is right. There are almost as many styles of live-aboard
cruising as there are cruisers. Many of the modern doo-dads can
be spurned with a willing mindset, common sense and a good set of
tools. By “modern standards” (whatever that might be), my boat is
comparatively Ludditious (yes, I just made up that adjective),
though I did opt for a 12v water-maker as I had on my previous
cruiser and would again because of the way and the places I
cruise. As a single-hander, I felt a low-end radar and 2-way AIS
were smart investments in offshore safety, as were several
self-steering systems. All new standing and running rigging were
a no-brainer for my good old boat (and more recently, replacing
the cranky, 32-year-old roller furling seemed prudent) as were
(eventually) a new set of sails, without which I would have had a
motorboat with sticks – except she would not have motored very
far had I not invested $16k on day one in a new diesel engine.
And on and on. $50k in the first year or two. I’m still panting.
And that’s without Garhauer this and Garmin that and a holy host
of other niceties for which I had neither time nor discretionary
funds. (Wanna’ see something really scary? Check out the lists
linked from http://www.silverheels.us/refit.htm .)That said (and done), I started out cruising oh-so-many years
before on salty sailboats without any of that stuff, and also
with no electrical systems and no engine, while admiring the
Pardy’s for circumnavigating the same way with a cedar bucket for
a toilet. I enjoyed countless adventures under sail with the most
basic of basics. It’s all good, as Ken will readily attest from
the Grenadines. $50k and more can vanish in the blink of an eye
during a refit of a decades-old 42′ sailboat, or you can cast off
as-is and drift to Polynesia like the Kon Tiki. In between are
endless possibilities, reliant only on your budget,
resourcefulness and sense of adventure.Reef early,
Tor
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Right on, Ewan. I don’t feel bad about it, either. On the
contrary, I count myself uncommonly fortunate.Nobody makes us do this.
Tor
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