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Good suggestion. I am just getting started with that list. Mostly I threw it up there so I’d stop worrying about remembering things I wanted to look into.
Coastal Explorer Chart support: http://www.rosepointnav.com/CoastalExplorer/NewCharts.htm also supports Navionics S-57 through Chartworld.
I’ll add SOB (Australian company apparently) to my list, thanks!
I’m still torn with the ComputerChartplotter. Chartplotters like hardenede laptops are overpriced and quickly outdated. Might be better to just add a hardened touchscreen to the cockput and use multi-monitor and just have one unit tracking in the nav station.
Then you can also watch a movie in the cockpit. 😉 But I’m not sold on any one way yet. Just still looking.-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “John Stevenson” <>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Radar / ChartplotterPatrick,
That’s a good start on evaluating the PC-based chart plotters. I wish I had used similar logic in my selection, I just backed into my choices based on price. For your evaluation I would also record what chart types each supports (e.g., ENC57, Raster, C-Map, Navionics, etc.). For example I really like the way Coast Explorer handles NOAA ENCs and knits them with the RNCs. However, CE does not support (or at least didn’t the last time I checked) any of the proprietary formats (C-Map/Navionics). So it is a great product for coastal navigation around the US, but not much use if you head to Mexico or the Caribbean. For US coastal cruising I’ll stick with Fugawi, although I really don’t like the product. At least it will support Navionics for cruising outside of the US.
I recommend you take a look at Software On Board (SOB) from DigiBoat. It used to be the cheapest of the quality plotters ($70), I think it is now over $200. It only supports C-Map, so not the best solution for US coastal cruising, but it is one of the most robust products I’ve looked at. I much prefer it to Fugawi (which I have) or MaxSea and Nobeltec (which I don’t). When I helped a few cruisers implement AIS while in Europe on both products I found them to be confusing and very counter-intuitive as well as vastly overpriced. I used SOB exclusively on my PC when cruising Europe and then last winter in the Bahamas (Navionics is worse than useless in the Bahamas).
One thing to keep in mind is how will you use the chart plotter while in the cockpit. That is why I ended up with both the Raymarine plotter (for the cockpit) and the PC plotter for serious navigation at the nav desk. Having the Raymarine plotter visible in the cockpit is great when making a landfall or entering a harbor. Off-shore it is just an entertainment tool for the night watch.Eric,
I have the Raymarine Pathfinder radar and C120 display using Navionics charts. I am satisfied enough with it (or short enough of expendable funds) to stick with it. Like Bob, if I were to make that purchase today it would likely be different – probably Furuno or Garmin. Raymarine seems to be concentrating on the mega-yacht business rather than we small-yacht cruisers. As others have pointed out, I will hold onto what I have until the newer technology improves.
With regard to paper charts. It’s been years since I last pulled out one of my paper charts and they are now way out of date. The next time I go to a SSCA GAM I’ll probably dump them. I think you are on the right track to practice navigation using conventional charts, but very few cruisers I know use them underway. The common practice ( or at least my practice) is to collect a few charts of specific harbors you intend to visit or represent harbors of refuge and up-to-date cruising guides along with the electronic charts. New paper charts now are just too expensive.On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:According to Ben Ellison (http://www.Panbo.com) the pulse systems to indeed have less range and because of that less of an ability to view weather but they do have HUGE gains in <1NM resolution. If you're mostly concerned about navigating fog. I think the pulse system is for you. If you're main concern is offshore I'd either go with a traditional RADAR or wait a year and see if the pulse systems improve their range.I’m starting to do some reasearch on PC based Navigation Software and I’m looking at which ones have RADAR overlay. You might want to check that list out.
http://www.deepplaya.com/wiki/Navigation-Software.ashx-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: ()
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:55 AM
To: ()
Subject: Re: Radar / ChartplotterEric
I originally purchased a RADAR unit in 1986 for my 424. It may be the same model as you presently have. I replaced it a few years back with a JRC color RADAR/chartplotter and never regretted it. JRC makes the guts of many of the RADAR units such as Raymarine but are less costly. JRC stopped selling under their own name. Distributors put them out on clearance. I bought mine for about $1300. This is the only distributor I could find with a websearch. They want too much money for what they have in stock. If you keep your eye out you might find one for a little over a grand.
http://www.boatersworld.com/bm/RadarAutopilots/JRC/316300565.htmlI mounted my display in the cockpit. I put a teak mounting panel on the binnacle guard. I’m not entirely pleased with the instrument mount and may redo it, but it works.
http://www.richardcarter.net/Cockpit.htmlI too cruise in the Northeast. I really like having the RADAR/chartplotter at the wheel. I have a laptop below that runs Nobletec which does a lot better job as a chartplotter but running below to navigate is a pain. I rarely need the RADAR but use it when its convenient. Power consumption isn’t a big deal. The FURUNO used a lot more power. If your budget is limited, go for an inexpenive unit and skip the bells and whistles. Most collisions occur at closer distances than 12 miles. Having a long-range and powerful RADAR is of limited use. My Furuno was a better RADAR unit but it sucked down the watts and I had to mount it below. The JRC works just fine and doesn’t run down my batteries.
Don’t forget to budget for charts. The c-map cartridges are expensive.
Regards
Rich
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Patrick,
Take a look at the ChartWorld sight. I don't think it is for most of us. Looks to me they want to sell charts as a service not a product. You pay an annual fee for the charts. When you stop paying you lose the charts. I may have missed something, but that is what it looked like to me when I checked there sight a few years ago. Their service seemed to oriented to the fleet owners (cargo, charter, etc.) and crewed yachts that move all over the world.On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Good suggestion. I am just getting started with that list. Mostly I threw it up there so I'd stop worrying about remembering things I wanted to look into.Coastal Explorer Chart support: http://www.rosepointnav.com/CoastalExplorer/NewCharts.htm also supports Navionics S-57 through Chartworld.
I'll add SOB (Australian company apparently) to my list, thanks!
I'm still torn with the ComputerChartplotter. Chartplotters like hardenede laptops are overpriced and quickly outdated. Might be better to just add a hardened touchscreen to the cockput and use multi-monitor and just have one unit tracking in the nav station.
Then you can also watch a movie in the cockpit. 😉 But I'm not sold on any one way yet. Just still looking.-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424Â Hull #152 |Â http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “John Stevenson” < ([email][/email])>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11 AM
To: ()
Subject: Re: Radar / ChartplotterPatrick,
That's a good start on evaluating the PC-based chart plotters. I wish I had used similar logic in my selection, I just backed into my choices based on price. For your evaluation I would also record what chart types each supports (e.g., ENC57, Raster, C-Map, Navionics, etc.). For example I really like the way Coast Explorer handles NOAA ENCs and knits them with the RNCs. However, CE does not support (or at least didn't the last time I checked) any of the proprietary formats (C-Map/Navionics). So it is a great product for coastal navigation around the US, but not much use if you head to Mexico or the Caribbean. For US coastal cruising I'll stick with Fugawi, although I really don't like the product. At least it will support Navionics for cruising outside of the US.
I recommend you take a look at Software On Board (SOB) from DigiBoat. It used to be the cheapest of the quality plotters ($70), I think it is now over $200. It only supports C-Map, so not the best solution for US coastal cruising, but it is one of the most robust products I've looked at. I much prefer it to Fugawi (which I have) or MaxSea and Nobeltec (which I don't). When I helped a few cruisers implement AIS while in Europe on both products I found them to be confusing and very counter-intuitive as well as vastly overpriced. I used SOB exclusively on my PC when cruising Europe and then last winter in the Bahamas (Navionics is worse than useless in the Bahamas).
One thing to keep in mind is how will you use the chart plotter while in the cockpit. That is why I ended up with both the Raymarine plotter (for the cockpit) and the PC plotter for serious navigation at the nav desk. Having the Raymarine plotter visible in the cockpit is great when making a landfall or entering a harbor. Off-shore it is just an entertainment tool for the night watch.Eric,
I have the Raymarine Pathfinder radar and C120 display using Navionics charts. I am satisfied enough with it (or short enough of expendable funds) to stick with it. Like Bob, if I were to make that purchase today it would likely be different – probably Furuno or Garmin. Raymarine seems to be concentrating on the mega-yacht business rather than we small-yacht cruisers. As others have pointed out, I will hold onto what I have until the newer technology improves.
With regard to paper charts. It's been years since I last pulled out one of my paper charts and they are now way out of date. The next time I go to a SSCA GAM I'll probably dump them. I think you are on the right track to practice navigation using conventional charts, but very few cruisers I know use them underway. The common practice ( or at least my practice) is to collect a few charts of specific harbors you intend to visit or represent harbors of refuge and up-to-date cruising guides along with the electronic charts. New paper charts now are just too expensive.On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:According to Ben Ellison (http://www.Panbo.com) the pulse systems to indeed have less range and because of that less of an ability to view weather but they do have HUGE gains in <1NM resolution. If you're mostly concerned about navigating fog. I think the pulse system is for you. If you're main concern is offshore I'd either go with a traditional RADAR or wait a year and see if the pulse systems improve their range.I'm starting to do some reasearch on PC based Navigation Software and I'm looking at which ones have RADAR overlay. You might want to check that list out.
http://www.deepplaya.com/wiki/Navigation-Software.ashx-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424Â Hull #152 |Â http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: ()
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:55 AM
To: ()
Subject: Re: Radar / ChartplotterEric
I originally purchased a RADAR unit in 1986 for my 424. It may be the same model as you presently have. I replaced it a few years back with a JRC color RADAR/chartplotter and never regretted it. JRC makes the guts of many of the RADAR units such as Raymarine but are less costly. JRC stopped selling under their own name. Distributors put them out on clearance. I bought mine for about $1300. This is the only distributor I could find with a websearch. They want too much money for what they have in stock. If you keep your eye out you might find one for a little over a grand.
http://www.boatersworld.com/bm/RadarAutopilots/JRC/316300565.htmlI mounted my display in the cockpit. I put a teak mounting panel on the binnacle guard. I'm not entirely pleased with the instrument mount and may redo it, but it works.
http://www.richardcarter.net/Cockpit.htmlI too cruise in the Northeast. I really like having the RADAR/chartplotter at the wheel. I have a laptop below that runs Nobletec which does a lot better job as a chartplotter but running below to navigate is a pain. I rarely need the RADAR but use it when its convenient. Power consumption isn't a big deal. The FURUNO used a lot more power. If your budget is limited, go for an inexpenive unit and skip the bells and whistles. Most collisions occur at closer distances than 12 miles. Having a long-range and powerful RADAR is of limited use. My Furuno was a better RADAR unit but it sucked down the watts and I had to mount it below. The JRC works just fine and doesn't run down my batteries.
Don't forget to budget for charts. The c-map cartridges are expensive.
Regards
Rich
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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In my opinion, a dedicated cockpit mounted chartplotter and a laptop based navigation package each have their place. I do my planning on my laptop using a decent sized screen with a good user interface. Here in the Northeast, we have substantial tides and currents that run as high as 6 kts in some channels. Timing the trip with the current can make all the difference in a day. Tides run out of phase from one place to another, so planning the right time to reach various waypoints can be tedious without having the right tools. A laptop based charting system with Tides and Currents is a great addition. This shows current arrows on the chart. You can change the date and time to observe what the tide will be at that point at any point in time. I adjust my predicted speed over ground for each course leg and work my ETAs for each waypoint based on current.
http://www.nobeltec.com/products/prod_tides.aspWith free charts available for downloading and inexpesive laptops available, its an inexpensive upgrade. I use nobeltec, but there are other charting software packages out there. I assume they have an equivalent tides-and-currents feature. If they don’t, keep looking.
As I mentioned earlier, I used to do all my piloting using my laptop below at my nav station. Putting the RADAR/chartplotter at the wheel makes it much easier to drive, but then the waypoint database needs to be sync’d between the laptop and the chartplotter. You can do it by hand if you wish. I wrote some software to convert from one database format to another. There’s an open-source tool called gpsbable, but not all the chartplotters are supported. Garmin is pretty much the standard for non-marine GPS systems. With a huge user base, its garmin protocol is supported by most PC based mapping software so you don’t need a conversion utility. WPL sentences can be exchanged too, but the NMEA standard never meant it to be used that way. There are problems using this method on many instruments. NMEA 2000 is a later and more capable protocol, but it isn’t supported on many instruments.
I use two entirely independent systems for GPS navigation. My cockpit instruments have their own GPS and the chartplotter has its separate antenna and system. On rare occasions, I’ve observed one or the other lock up for short periods of time. This happens if something interferes with the satellite signal when there are few satellites in view. Having two systems means that both probably won’t have problems at the same time. Battery failure, power surge, or lightening strike could take out all my electronics. I keep a handheld battery operated unit as yet another backup. There are occasions when the satellite constellation can either have problems or fail entirely. As I’ve mentioned in numerous earlier messages, having a backup such as LORAN, radio-DF, and basic navigation skills is highly recommended.
Rich
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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I’ve tried to use it myself and I will say this, it is a pain in the butt and the charts are expensive.
But the question was what chart types are supported. 😉-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “John Stevenson” <>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 3:54 PM
To:
Subject: Re: SW Charting Feature ComparisonPatrick,
Take a look at the ChartWorld sight. I don’t think it is for most of us. Looks to me they want to sell charts as a service not a product. You pay an annual fee for the charts. When you stop paying you lose the charts. I may have missed something, but that is what it looked like to me when I checked there sight a few years ago. Their service seemed to oriented to the fleet owners (cargo, charter, etc.) and crewed yachts that move all over the world.On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Good suggestion. I am just getting started with that list. Mostly I threw it up there so I’d stop worrying about remembering things I wanted to look into.Coastal Explorer Chart support: http://www.rosepointnav.com/CoastalExplorer/NewCharts.htm also supports Navionics S-57 through Chartworld.
I’ll add SOB (Australian company apparently) to my list, thanks!
I’m still torn with the ComputerChartplotter. Chartplotters like hardenede laptops are overpriced and quickly outdated. Might be better to just add a hardened touchscreen to the cockput and use multi-monitor and just have one unit tracking in the nav station.
Then you can also watch a movie in the cockpit. 😉 But I’m not sold on any one way yet. Just still looking.-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: “John Stevenson” < ([email][/email])>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11 AM
To: ()
Subject: Re: Radar / ChartplotterPatrick,
That’s a good start on evaluating the PC-based chart plotters. I wish I had used similar logic in my selection, I just backed into my choices based on price. For your evaluation I would also record what chart types each supports (e.g., ENC57, Raster, C-Map, Navionics, etc.). For example I really like the way Coast Explorer handles NOAA ENCs and knits them with the RNCs. However, CE does not support (or at least didn’t the last time I checked) any of the proprietary formats (C-Map/Navionics). So it is a great product for coastal navigation around the US, but not much use if you head to Mexico or the Caribbean. For US coastal cruising I’ll stick with Fugawi, although I really don’t like the product. At least it will support Navionics for cruising outside of the US.
I recommend you take a look at Software On Board (SOB) from DigiBoat. It used to be the cheapest of the quality plotters ($70), I think it is now over $200. It only supports C-Map, so not the best solution for US coastal cruising, but it is one of the most robust products I’ve looked at. I much prefer it to Fugawi (which I have) or MaxSea and Nobeltec (which I don’t). When I helped a few cruisers implement AIS while in Europe on both products I found them to be confusing and very counter-intuitive as well as vastly overpriced. I used SOB exclusively on my PC when cruising Europe and then last winter in the Bahamas (Navionics is worse than useless in the Bahamas).
One thing to keep in mind is how will you use the chart plotter while in the cockpit. That is why I ended up with both the Raymarine plotter (for the cockpit) and the PC plotter for serious navigation at the nav desk. Having the Raymarine plotter visible in the cockpit is great when making a landfall or entering a harbor. Off-shore it is just an entertainment tool for the night watch.Eric,
I have the Raymarine Pathfinder radar and C120 display using Navionics charts. I am satisfied enough with it (or short enough of expendable funds) to stick with it. Like Bob, if I were to make that purchase today it would likely be different – probably Furuno or Garmin. Raymarine seems to be concentrating on the mega-yacht business rather than we small-yacht cruisers. As others have pointed out, I will hold onto what I have until the newer technology improves.
With regard to paper charts. It’s been years since I last pulled out one of my paper charts and they are now way out of date. The next time I go to a SSCA GAM I’ll probably dump them. I think you are on the right track to practice navigation using conventional charts, but very few cruisers I know use them underway. The common practice ( or at least my practice) is to collect a few charts of specific harbors you intend to visit or represent harbors of refuge and up-to-date cruising guides along with the electronic charts. New paper charts now are just too expensive.On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:According to Ben Ellison (http://www.Panbo.com) the pulse systems to indeed have less range and because of that less of an ability to view weather but they do have HUGE gains in <1NM resolution. If you're mostly concerned about navigating fog. I think the pulse system is for you. If you're main concern is offshore I'd either go with a traditional RADAR or wait a year and see if the pulse systems improve their range.I’m starting to do some reasearch on PC based Navigation Software and I’m looking at which ones have RADAR overlay. You might want to check that list out.
http://www.deepplaya.com/wiki/Navigation-Software.ashx-p
—-
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comFrom: ()
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:55 AM
To: ()
Subject: Re: Radar / ChartplotterEric
I originally purchased a RADAR unit in 1986 for my 424. It may be the same model as you presently have. I replaced it a few years back with a JRC color RADAR/chartplotter and never regretted it. JRC makes the guts of many of the RADAR units such as Raymarine but are less costly. JRC stopped selling under their own name. Distributors put them out on clearance. I bought mine for about $1300. This is the only distributor I could find with a websearch. They want too much money for what they have in stock. If you keep your eye out you might find one for a little over a grand.
http://www.boatersworld.com/bm/RadarAutopilots/JRC/316300565.htmlI mounted my display in the cockpit. I put a teak mounting panel on the binnacle guard. I’m not entirely pleased with the instrument mount and may redo it, but it works.
http://www.richardcarter.net/Cockpit.htmlI too cruise in the Northeast. I really like having the RADAR/chartplotter at the wheel. I have a laptop below that runs Nobletec which does a lot better job as a chartplotter but running below to navigate is a pain. I rarely need the RADAR but use it when its convenient. Power consumption isn’t a big deal. The FURUNO used a lot more power. If your budget is limited, go for an inexpenive unit and skip the bells and whistles. Most collisions occur at closer distances than 12 miles. Having a long-range and powerful RADAR is of limited use. My Furuno was a better RADAR unit but it sucked down the watts and I had to mount it below. The JRC works just fine and doesn’t run down my batteries.
Don’t forget to budget for charts. The c-map cartridges are expensive.
Regards
Rich
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
Patrick:
I noticed that your software list did not have either of the free programs that are out there, SeaClear and OpenCPN.
SeaClear has been around for a while. I have only played with it a few times, but one of it’s advantages is that it will allow you to import scanned charts into the program.
http://www.sping.com/seaclear/
OpenCPN has only been around for a couple of years, but it is open source software.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/opencpn/
Most of the development activity has been taking place on the Cruiser Forum , where it has it’s own forum. I had downloaded this software a year ago, but have not used it that much, as it is getting continually enhanced. Based on the amount of work being done on it, I get the feeling that it is going to be a pretty good product.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f134/
Paul
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Hi Paul,
Well, I have the stupid program that comes with Maptech Chartkits, SeaClear, and now OpenCPN.
I'm just about to check out how well the OpenCPN works with attached GPSes. It was problematic for Maptech, easy peasy with SeaClear, and with OpenCPN, I'm truly excited that it can use the ENC charts. They are much richer in data and smaller in size.Â
I'll let you know, but I'm really, really looking into using the OpenCPN – it's really easy to use, simple to understand, and FAST.Â
I give it a thumbs up so far. Thanks for the info!
 Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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In the event you all care, the OpenCPN works like a charm – I'm almost ready to hook it to my autopilot and integrate it with the GPS antenna and make it start the coffee maker and everything.
I like it, I recommend it. And it's free.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
Follow me at: http://www.tinyurl.com/WhereIsBobFinePost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
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Help! I downloaded the software for opencpn and the charts from noaa but I can’t save a route. I know that I must be missing something, is it because I don’t have a GPS hooked up or am I missing something on the software? I have been to the online help and I can’t figure out how to put the program to use. Once again a bartender not tech support damn!
Linus
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