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Someone emailed me asking what windvane I had settled upon that would still allow me to use davits. I’d like
to address this on the forum to see what kind of feedback it’ll bring. Chances are others have already dealt
with this, or have given it some thought.Silver Heels, a ketch-rigged, aft-cockpit 424, came to me with custom-made dinghy davits already installed. I
kept them to use during short coastal and inter-island passages. Unfortunately, they prevent me from
installing a Monitor windvane, which would otherwise be my first choice for self-steering by the wind. (I
sailed 30,000-odd miles with a Monitor on my last cruising boat and was very pleased with it, and with the
builder’s after-market support.) The problem is, on our Pearson 424’s the Monitor would protrude too far aft
of the transom to permit carrying a dinghy in normal davits. So I’ve been looking around at other windvanes. I
seriously considered the Cape Horn for a while, but the very involved and invasive installation it requires,
plus its complex internal connections in places I can’t get to instantly, ultimately scared me off.At the Annapolis sailboat show last month I got to see some other windvanes up close. The two I like best,
which will still let me use my davits, are sold by Scanmar, the same people who build the Monitor. They are
the Saye’s Rig and the Auto-Helm, shown near the bottom of Scanmar’s homepage at http://www.selfsteer.com. I like the
simplicity of the Saye’s Rig windvane and the fact that it mounts very close to the transom, thereby ensuring
ample space for a dinghy in the davits. But Hans Bernwall, Scanmar’s founder and a pretty smart guy where
windvanes are concerned, has urged me to go with the Auto-Helm. He says it’s a more robust, better designed
mechanism. So that’s the way I’m leaning now. I’ve still got some final measuring to do to be certain it’ll
work with the dinghy I have in the davits I have.One cool thing about the Auto-Helm is that you can mount the airvane, the upper section, at or near the
transom, either on center or off, wherever it’s convenient. That’s because it connects by flexible cables to
an external rudder trim tab, rather than by a rigid vane-to-paddle shaft. I’m still figuring out where I’d
mount it on my boat. I definitely want it on or very near the stern rail so I can readily attach a tiller
autopilot to the airvane’s counterweight when motoring. This use of a relatively inexpensive, low-draw tiller
autopilot in combination with the water-generated strength of the windvane’s steering apparatus, is an
integral part of what I want for my boat’s self-steering. Bottom line: I’d rather have 2 or even 3 small
tiller autopilots plus a windvane than one big, strong, expensive internal autopilot.So, I’m in the semi-final stage of head-scratching. Would be grateful for any group input.
Thanks,
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor, what’s the down side in using an electrical autopilot? Takes up no room
on the transom and draws little current. I have the big white davits (no
longer made) on the rear of a P424 aft cockpit ketch for our dinghy and I
have a wind generator on the mizzen mast to generate power. I converted all
my lights to LED’s. I have used the auto helm on long passages off shore and
am pleased with it. What am I missing about these wind vane contraptions? I
confess I am totally unfamiliar with them. Barring some benefit I am
missing, why not UN clutter the stern and transom and go with an electric
auto helm?
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Hi Tor,
I have the monitor, and I wouldn't carry my dinghy on davits on a passage even if I had davits. I also have a Simrad tiller pilot that connects to the monitor instead of a paddle. But I also installed the Raymarine ST-6002 Autopilot that is interfaced with the C-80 that allows me to make routes and do all sorts of other stuff with the autopilot that I couldn't do with the windvane. If you have both I think you'll be happier than depending on one or the other expecially when the main on fails, or whatever. For systems that are a necessity (are there any, really?), two independent parallel systems are the way to go.
Hi Thatcher,
If you've got so much power that you can use six or seven amp-hours all day long with an internal autopilot then it's a perfectly rational way to go. The windvane will steer the boat saving all that power so that you can keep your batteries topped off, run your radar, freeze your ice and not have to run your engine once a day.
If you're not travelling more than a few hours a day you won't bother with a windvane as it takes a while to set up and adjust and it takes a while to put away. Pressing buttons is far faster and easier (I do it with great aplomb and vigor, I might add). But for longer journeys, the windvane is quite the little thing to have.
I'm looking to set the Pelican up to run using solar power and a shaft generator and minimized power consumption so that I can run up to 5 days without using 50% of my battery capacity of 600AH (50% = 300AH). With my portable fridge it's more than possible. With my main fridge, not so much.
The whole issue is what kind of sailing you are going to do. I plan Bahamas to Bermuda, Beaufort NC to Bahamas, Bermuda to Ireland not necessarily in that order. Passages like that where if I don't have to run the motor I'm happy as a clam. Windvanes are just the ticket for that kind of travelling.
Still, I know of many people who have done just those legs with electric autopilots.
It's all about personal preferences.
There's my two cents.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
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Thatcher,
The downside of using an electric autopilot exclusively is that when it breaks down offshore you’re pretty
much reduced to hand-steering your boat. That’s not so bad if you’ve got a bunch of crew to stand watches, I
suppose, but I sometimes single-hand long passages and otherwise rarely have more than one other person aboard
for any length of time. So I consider self-steering essential for safe and happy voyaging. Of course, a
second, spare, (ideally) identical unit would answer here, but 2 big, internal autopilots is beyond this
cruiser’s budget.Even if the lone autopilot malfunctions in or near port, a cruising sailor must then wait, often for weeks,
for repair or replacement parts. More than one skipper has “missed his tide” for this reason, including a
fellow who wrote an article about it in the October (?) issue of Blue Water Sailing. He did eventually set
sail from Bermuda, but only after a long delay that put his crossing to the Azores farther into the storm
season.For the price of one full-size internal autopilot you can instead have a windvane and 2 or 3 tiller
autopilots, which cost only a few hundred dollars each and use the strength of the passing water to steer the
boat, rather than mega-amps of battery power. When one of the tiller-pilots breaks, you simply put on the
other one and ship the broken unit off for repair from the next port of call. If that one breaks, too, or if
some ill-tempered lightening bolt reduces your electrical system to ballast, you still have self-steering as
long as the wind blows, and using zero amp hours. (Most of us need every amp we can get from our wind
generators and solar panels just to keep a refrigerator going.)Certainly there are many successful voyages made with just one autopilot aboard. But for the same price I hope
to have several back-ups for this very important system.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Bob, you’re right as always. I would love to have one or two of everything, but alas, I would then have to go back to work instead of going cruising. As for davits, of course no sensible cruiser would carry a dinghy that way offshore. That’s not their purpose. And regarding the autopilot interface, I realize I buck the trend here when I say I prefer to be the interface on my boat. Just a personal choice. That said, I admire your set up.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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You all have covered the points about power consumption, safety if there’s an electrical failure or autopilot fairly brilliantly let me briefly add two other points.
Many windvanes can also function as an emergency rudder either as they come or with an add-on. Read about the options your considering and ask about that. The Ayer’s is a functional rudder as-is. The Monitor uses the transom mount to host their SOS Rudder (another boat unit or three in cost). The others are all of the place too. There’s no standard answer here.
QUIET. I love the peacefulness of sailing. Keeping that engine from being turned on is a goal. 🙂
But like Robert said, its all personal preference really.
-p
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com<.. snip>
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Owners no more...
Thanks Dawn and Patrick! -
That’s a good point about the emergency rudder possibilities of a windvane, Pat. One of the features in favor of the Auto-Helm windvane is that it utilizes a separate, external rudder mounted on the lower transom. That rudder steers the boat when the windvane is operating, not the vessel’s steering system. There are no lines to the boat’s helm or steering quadrant. This Auto-Helm rudder is in turn steered by a trim tab, which is directed by the airvane. If the vessel’s steering system fails, you still have fully operational self-steering, and/or can actually hand-steer your boat with a little tiller arm that’s on the base of the airvane “mast.” Details at http://www.selfsteer.com/products/autohelm/index.php .
I’d still like to hear from anyone who has addressed the windvane/davits issue on a 424.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Pat and Tor,
The Monitor emergency rudder is a whopping $1400! That's pretty darn steep. I think I'll do the traditional thing of eyes on the rudder – if the cable breaks I can still steer with the windvane.
If the rudder falls off, well, it's been nice to know you!
Bob
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Right on. I drilled a hole in the lower aft corner of Silver Heels’ rudder last year, so that if the steering system ever does fail I can (theoretically) dive overboard, tie lines to the rudder and lead them to the primary sheet winches to steer the boat.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Tor,
Safety tip – when you go offshore tie lines beforehand. For two reasons: 1; when the rudder system fails it usually isn't in dead calm. You will have enough to do that doesn't include leaving the boat and 2; if the rudder shaft breaks you will still have a rudder on the end of your lines.
I read this in a magazine many years ago. And so, now, my friend, I pass it on to you.
Bob
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Right on. I drilled a hole in the lower aft corner of Silver Heels' rudder last year, so that if the steering system ever does fail I can (theoretically) dive overboard, tie lines to the rudder and lead them to the primary sheet winches to steer the boat.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Robert
That was a great response. I do get tremendous power from my windmill and of course, the more she blows, the more she generates. I do not have an ice maker, just an icebox inside the fridge. Since I changed every light on the boat to an LED I have had great success with power management. Thanks.
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Tor
Very good comments, thanks.
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Hi Thatcher,
I'm wondering, if you had the chance now to replace your windmill with solar panels, would you do it? Are there times you wish the thing to be more quiet? Which wind generator do you have? I know the KISS one is very quiet, and the Marine Air one sounds like a jet taking off.
Maybe it's time for me to give up my racing background where I worry about weight aloft and just go with a wind generator – the big thing that stops me is that if there is a way to get something caught in the blades, I will do that very thing. Knowing my own limitations helps me stay out of trouble…
I, too, have replaced all my lighting including navigation lights with LEDs – I replaced the bulbs in the masthead with bulbs from Dr. Led. The tricolor has three colored led gangs and the anchor is just the one white light.
I added new nav lights on the pulpit and stern rail with appropriate LEDs in them as well. It reduces night lighting from 3 amps to 0.2 amps. That's a lot of night sailing.
Thanks, Thatcher!
Bob
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 8:04 AM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:RobertThat was a great response. I do get tremendous power from my windmill and of course, the more she blows, the more she generates. I do not have an ice maker, just an icebox inside the fridge. Since I changed every light on the boat to an LED I have had great success with power management. Thanks.
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