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Ewan, any idea yet about when youll have someone fetch the tank & hooka rig? And is this a good email address to use for you or should I use another? Forgot to ask the other day.
JackQuent:
One way I could categorize the boat owners I’ve met while cruising would be to say they fell into two camps: those who had staysails/solent set-ups that were permanently installed (e.g. a typical inner stay with a furler attached) and who were thinking of removing the foil, drum, furling line et al. to give them a better shaped (and even built) sail…and those without a permanent set-up that were thinking of doing the reverse. I’m not sure there IS a right answer to this, except to consider how and where you sail, and what your boat needs that it isn’t already getting from the current rig. If looking at it from a cost standpoint, you might tally up the additional costs (don’t forget recutting or replacing the sail) and ask yourself how many times you’ll be using that ‘improvement’.
For your double-headed sloop rig, I would be very wary of moving the forestay further forward: the CE moves further forward for normal sailing and there are some structural issues you’ll need to consider, which usually = cost. By contrast a furling light air MPS/Asyn or Drifter would be simpler, lighter, less expensive and – cleverly rigged – easy to work without going up to the ballroom at the pointy end of the boat for a dance…but of course, none of these benefits will help you when on the wind. OTOH it sounds like you are already pleased with how your rig performs on that point of sail.
I don’t have a lot of experience tapping expertise for rig redesign but, based on what experience I have had, I’d rate the ‘expert opinions’ available for rig questions this way:
— NA’s: very much luck of the draw when it comes to addressing specific rig changes on a specific boat with an existing rig; I would look for someone who specializes on rig mods and expect a substantial hourly consultation fee
— Riggers: the two I’ve spent a lot of time with were very wary of drilling down into the details of my existing rig; they weren’t trained for that kind of analysis and preferred to offer ‘seat of the pants’ commentary which was free and perhaps worth what I paid for it
— Sailmakers: some of these folks seem like witches with special powers; I’ve found far more insightful comments about rigs from them than I ever expected. If you already have a relationship with a reputable sailmaker, I’d start there if you want to re-evaluate your rig.Jack
Just to add a bit of perspective on the Solent Stay – which didn’t get it’s name by accident – once some of us sailed over to Europe, it became pretty obvious that this is a commonly chosen alternative to the more common (to North American eyes) parallel inner stay. It is very common to see larger boats, especially those with large foresail areas, offered with a Solent Stay option and/or converted to that by their owners. I’m thinking especially of the large Jeanneaus, Beneteaus, Bavarias with their humongous foretriangles but also Rustlers, Rasseys and other high-end boats, as well. Most of these boats have higher tensioned rigs (due to all the shrouds being in line with and aft of the mast), all sail control lines led to the cockpit, and with a rig that keeps moving the CE further and further forward as the rig is reefed down.
The reasons for the Solent Stay preference seem to be not only the lesser cost and complexity (and the fact that this is seen as a conventional choice) but also the weather and conditions in which European sailing is done. Once the boat is hard pressed under reduced sail – and especially as these boats heel well over and lose some of their rudder’s effectiveness – the owner wants a quick way (for a short period of time, since distances sailed over there aren’t usually terribly long) to move the CE aft, lower it (relative to the rising position of the reefed genoa) and put the boat back on its feet. The Solent is the simple way to do this…and no place is more represented of this weather and the circumstances described than the Solent area of Britain.
Before ever seeing a Solent Stay first-hand, I chose it as a way to reef WHOOSH way down offshore when needed without the add’l complexity of the staysail. A compromise, to be sure – but one that has worked well so far when we needed it to. FWIW Brian Toss offered the opinion that attaching the Solent Stay within 3′ of the masthead attachment point on our boats should be fine. Given that our main masts seem to have been designed in Sherwood Forest and are so heavily stayed (for being so ‘stumpy’ by today’s standards), that made sense to me.
Jack
Sailing icon? I’m sure this wasn’t the same Don Street who was hanging around the CA House outside London in 2004. Every approach by another sailor was greeted with a refusal to talk unless he was first provided with a beer (…and he was serious), boat an unseaworthy mess, and very much not a pleasant guy to be around.
Two icons – who are actually sailing long distances, to this day – that I recently met are Eric Forsyth and Jimmy Cornell. Eric’s well past retirement age (by a decade or two) and sailed to both the Arctic and Antatrctic during the past 3 years, yet is down-to-earth and full of great stories about his own misadventures. Perusing his website is well worth some time (http://www.yachtfiona.com) whether for entertainment (read about his 50% success rate in picking crew), education (self-effacing FIONA refurbishing a few years back) or simply to gain an appreciation for some serious sailing and dealing with acceptance in adversity.
The pleasure of talking with Jimmy was to hear him answer this question: ‘If heading into the Pacific, what are the places that simply MUST be visited – the truly special ones out of that vast collection of good destinations?’ It wasn’t just noting the answers (which included Easter Is. and Suwarrow) but listening to (even ‘feeling’) the joy that each of these stops generated. And hey, any guy who has an audience with the Pope as a direct result of his sailing obviously has had a few adventures that extend beyond his own personal pleasures. (His latest is A Passion for the Sea).
I found both these guys to be completely approachable, amazingly humble, and eager to share information that was well worth getting.
Jack
Tho’ I’m coming late to this discussion, perhaps these comments might add to the mix when the next ‘vane researcher’ arrives…
We’ve sailed offshore with a Sailomat 3040 (a fixed rudder + fixed servo oar arrangement, unique and without a doubt the best vane I’ve seen in use) and, more recently, a Sailomat 601 (insofar as steering is concerned, a typical servo-oar vane, but with a unique mounting arrangement).
One thing I learned early on is how vulnerable a fixed rudder-type vane (e.g. Hydrovane, Auto-Helm, etc.) can be when berthed in marinas or maneuvering in tight quarters. And some rudders are biggish and even very heavy, naturally they are covered in bottom paint, and so storing them aboard can be a challenge on some boats. The 3040 vane we had provided for both rudder and servo oar to be removed via Fastpins; elegant & easy. When berthing in a marina, I began removing them after several close calls. As an example and just last week, friends aboard GEMINI, a Tayana 47, had their Hydrovane forced into a fresh new custom shape by a 3-prop Italian steel motor yacht – a $6K mistake by the motoryacht’s owner and a real hassle for GEMINI’s owner.
Servo-oar vanes suffer some of the same fates. I think my 601 vane is a mix of the good and not so good, but one feature I value greatly is the ability, by loosening a single bolt, to be able to remove the servo oar entirely. (All that’s left is the small mount and a short vertical pole). Coincidentally, it was the skipper off the same GEMINI who fought off two British motoryachts that, one after the other, were heading for WHOOSH’s wind vane on their arrival at our London marina in 2004. The servo oar got removed the next day and stayed off for the balance of the winter there.
I see lots of discussion about ‘boom clearing vane blade’ (or is that blade clearing boom?) and it sounds like that tends to be one of the central buying criteria by some. Like John (SARAH), I haven’t really found this to be a big deal in practice. The Sailomat inventor suggested a way to cut the wooden wind blade in two and, using clever cut lines and some bungee cord, be able to infinitely angle the top half of the blade if clearance became a concern. I used it this way for a year but, in the end, gave up on that specific blade because it had been shortened a bit in the process and I’d found I need a lot of wind blade on some points of sail because of the air turbulence caused by the bimini-dodger combo and (on one slice of the stbd tack) the outboard.
Another reason wind blade vs. boom issues doesn’t strike me as critical is that it’s pretty easy to build additional wind blades, assuming the boom takes its toll over time. When we arrived in the Azores (which is where I chucked that first wind blade), I felt one remaining wind blade wasn’t enough. The only 3 things I needed to make two new duplicates were: some 3mm ply (carried by the local hardware shop), the WEST epoxy I carried aboard (to seal up the ply and join the stiffener panel) and an electronic scale (ideally, the wind blades should all be the same weight or resetting the counterbalance weight might be needed). But as it happens, 6 years later all 3 blades show very little wear.
Finally, on our last Atlantic run I was really surprised to find how worn a vane’s steering lines can become…and I’m not referring to chafe, but just the running of the 8mm double braid thru the turning blocks. That was a relatively active (4m seas and 20+, start to finish) and long (3000 NM) passage and the vane had to work hard. I replaced (normally) mid-life steering lines early in the run, then a new set near the end of the passage. Part of this was due to having a fair degree of tension in the lines but part of it was just simple wear. So the lesson learned was: carry a fair bit of spare steering line.
Jack
WHOOSHWhat a surprise, not having been here in some time, to see this discussion on our downflooding boards. Like Rich, I too thought something was amiss about this project: simple? inexpensive? quick? Surely, not…
I don’t know how Paul uses his lockers but, if I understand his comment correctly, I would find it awkward to have the boards semi-permanently mounted under the locker lids. Partly, it’s because I’m in/out of those lockers fairly often – head and torso only, on a good day; all of me on the not-so-good days. And some of the things in my lockers need a fair bit of clearance to remove and reinsert, or at least are more easily moved with more clearance. The boards would foul some portion of the clearance (especially so when the cockpit cushions are left in place, further limiting just a bit the lid’s opening) for these larger items (ahem…including me, I guess).
Like the project itself, storing the boards has proven to not really be an issue. In the stbd. locker it serves as a false floor for dive gear, hose & electrical cable, etc. – tho’ that has to be rearranged before longer offshore runs. In the port locker, it simply sits on top of the locker’s contents…but at the locker’s aft end, which holds things intentionally not normally needed. And in the aft locker, it sits on top of a propane locker, unseen and out of the way until needed. These are light, thin and could be set up alongside the hull or stowed in other vertical arrangements; it’s really not worth a worry.
I must say – when looking at the posts just above this, between some of you – that I am soooo thankful it is John that wrestles with the SARAH & WHOOSH site. I’m sure some of those exchanges are (mostly) in English, but not the patois I speak…
Jack
