[typhoontye]

Here’s the follow up: Transmission was gone through by my local Westerbeke dealer. They changed out clutch plates, which were coming apart, and some broken springs. Cleaned it up, new seals and gaskets, painted it, and $1275 later its mine again. They also provided a new drive/dampener plate. Cost was about $75.

Since I only found 5 springs from the drive plate in the bottom of the bell housing when I first took it apart, and later surmised there should be six, I went hunting for the sixth. Found it wedged between the bell housing and the flywheel at the 12 o’clock position. It took three hours over two sessions to dislodge it, but finally got it out.

Installed all, and the engine and trans are running very well. No rattles. We plan to go out on an overnighter on Monday, and hopefully all will go well. Pretty sure we’ve successfully dealt with this problem.

Thanks to all for the help! Great discussion.

David

[typhoontye]

What a cluster! I’m sure you’re glad to have all that behind you. I read something on the R&D website that referenced problems with rattling when using the standard damper plate with the Yanmar. I’m hopeful that since I’m sticking with the W58 that I won’t have that issue. I can get the transmission out in a couple of hours now, so if I’m wrong it’s not a disaster. I’m paying $150 for my damper plate, and the higher quality plate from R&D is $800 I think. Worth the gamble…

David

[typhoontye]

Hello again Phil,

You mentioned that your issue might have something to do with the six cylinder engine. If that indeed was the cause, perhaps a standard Perkins/Westerbeke damper might work. I think the price on the PYI/R&D is around eight bills. The damper ordered by my rebuilder is $150. I still plan on talking to him about this, but it might be worthwhile for me to try the cheaper option.

Pulling the engine up not too big a hassle for me. But it would certainly have been a major job it I hadn’t replaced the engine mounts about six months ago. Now that was a job! The aft (engine aft, not boat aft) mounts were a real bear. Took a sawz all and several broken drill bits to get them out. Anyway, since they are new, it was easy to spin off the nuts.

David

[typhoontye]

Thank you Alan. I’ll talk to my rebuilder about this. Haven’t bought anything yet, though the part is on order Any info you can provide on the R&D damper plate is very much appreciated!

David

[typhoontye]

Hello all,

Well, the bottom line is, this is a dampener/drive plate issue. That is good news. Here’s how I got there:

I removed the drive shaft this morning in preparation to remove the transmission. I turned the output shaft of the transmission, and heard a metallic scraping noise. Didn’t think much of it, since when I had the drive shaft out several months ago to facilitate my Shaft-Lok install, it made the same noise. I thought to myself at the time, ‘I don’t like that sound but it must be normal since the transmission works fine’. Anyway, started removing transmission oil lines, when something Alan said struck a chord. This might be my last chance to start the engine for troubleshooting purposes. So I started the motor…it immediately made the same noises. I pushed the throttle up, watching oil pressure, and there was a slight ‘snap’ noise, then the abnormal racket went away. The engine sounded normal. I put it in gear, then went to see the transmission output flange turn, and you guessed it, it wasn’t turning. Nothing I could do would make it turn. Checked fluid, and it was fine. So removed the transmission (had to hoist the engine to get the bottom two transmission mount bolts), and the first thing I saw was what looked like pressure plate springs (five each) lying in the bottom of the bell housing area. I also noted damage to some other rotating components, apparently the remains of the drive plate. I took the transmission to my local Westerbeke guy, and he immediately recognized the problem. He’ll get me the new drive plate, and I asked him to go through the transmission as well. Probably $800-$1000.

Thanks to all for helping me think this problem out. Hopefully I can return the favor at some point. This is a great bulletin board with great members!

David

[typhoontye]

Thanks to all of you for your ideas. This discussion has been very helpful in determining a rational course of action. I concur that the starter/ring gear/bell housing area needs to be examined before taking more drastic action. So, I will remove the transmission next week and have a look see. If I see nothing suspicious, I’ll pull the engine out with our club hoist, pickup truck it to the house, and borrow my friends engine hoist to put it on our engine stand. Then tear into it to see what I can see. I haven’t torn down a diesel before, but have rebuilt a number of gas powered engines. If it looks like I can deal with it at a reasonable cost, maybe we’ll go that direction. If not, we won’t have wasted dollars in the investigation phase, and will feel better about investing in a repower.

Cindy, I may ask you more questions about your Kubota if I decide to take that route. We should consider all alternatives. Thanks for being willing to share details.

Thanks Alan and Ken for the fuel tank info. It sounds prudent to examine my tank before purchasing new. As mine is not leaking presently, maybe it’s in reasonably good shape. But I think it’s worth tearing into to verify if we pull the engine.

The initial shock of hearing our motor apparently coming apart has worn off, and I feel better now that we have an immediate course of action. Thanks to you all…I’ll keep you posted!

David

[typhoontye]

Thank you Roger, Skip, and Rich for your comments and ideas.
Roger, the ‘other symptoms’ are a bit strange. Oil pressure, water/temp appear normal. But when the severe noise commences, the engine emits crankcase oil fumes and some smoke eminates from nowhere in particular but the engine area in general. Frankly, the racket is pretty frightening, so I’ve shut it down pretty quickly without careful observation of RPM, etc.. When this problem first started (yesterday), the engine would run more or less OK, but with a strange sound, then it would suddenly emit the metal on metal grinding noise, and oil fumes and smoke would eminate from the general engine area, followed by me shutting it down quickly. I troubleshot the problem superficially, and in the process would start the motor to ‘check’, and found that the period of ‘normal’ operation became shorter and shorter with each restart, to the point that now the racket occurs pretty much immediately upon ignition.

Rich, I enjoyed reading your very comprehensive description of your repower. Very nice installation. I have inquired of Mastry regarding pricing for the 4JH57(57HP, Common rail injection, tier 3 emissions) and the 4JH5E(53HP, standard mechanical direct injection, I think, and tier 2 emissions). It appears both engines are currently available, new, and both come with 125amp alternators standard, and serpentine belt drive. Several questions that I had about the repower were answered for me as I read your account. Most notably, how to handle the backwards exhaust thing. I liked your sacrificial tool you built to bend the exhaust hose. A few questions came to mind as well. As we consider a fuel tank swap, it seems on the surface that perhaps now is the time to do this, even though ours is not leaking. I’m wondering how much to expect to spend on the tank itself. I can contact the company for which you supplied the contact info, and get some current info. Wondering too, if you would still go with the VD transmission, given the work involved. I know yours was recently overhauled, whereas mine is probably suspect. I don’t want to mess with the V-drive gear ratios, since ours is nearly new, replaced by the previous owner. I’ll have to examine normal cruising RPMs for the W58 vice the prospective replacement to determine what transmission ratio to shoot for. Frankly, I don’t know how many RPM I’m turning with the W58 because the tach is inaccurate, though consistent. I read 3000 RPM to cruise about 6 knots, but suspect I’m really turning about 2400 RPM. I think most Yanmars want about 2600-3200 RPM, consistent with my experience with the 3GM/3YM.

Anyway, more to follow as we figure out what we’re going to do…

David

[typhoontye]

Thanks Skip. You may likely get to this before I do. I’d be curious how it goes and what prop diameter/pitch they recommend. It’s also good to hear they have one to fit our original shafts. The cheapest prices I found for the flex o fold were with Cruising Solutions.

David

[typhoontye]

Thanks to all for your replies! Interesting discussion. Very interesting story from Ken regarding simultaneous rig and prop malfunction. Glad it wasn’t me! Carrying the old prop as a spare seems a most prudent thing to do. Hopefully I won’t have to modify my shaft so that I can retrofit the fixed pitch prop if needed.

After reviewing as much info as I could find on the internet, and speaking with two friends who have the flex-o-fold on their boats, I will probably go the flex-o-fold route. The biggest drawbacks of the folding props appears to be backing thrust, particularly at low RPM, and for those of us with hydraulic transmissions, the props won’t fold unless the shaft can be stopped momentarily. Given the advantages of the folding prop over the feathering variety, which include more efficient/faster motoring, simpler operation, less maintenance, and cheaper cost, I think I can learn to live with the drawbacks.

Speaking of the backing thrust challenges associated with folding props, after talking with my two friends with the flex-o-folds and bringing this up, they both said that they had not noticed this…that their boats seemed to stop as well as they did before they retrofitted. However, it is interesting to note the Flex-o-fold says to use more RPM when reversing to stop the boat.

I depended pretty heavily on an article in Yachting Monthly (British mag) which did a pretty thorough review of folding and feathering props some years ago. The Flex-o-fold came away with very good ratings. Best forward thrust, minimal prop walk, and highest reverse thrust (I know, doesn’t make sense…I’m assuming the test was at high RPM).

Thanks again for your comments, and I will post results of whatever route I take…probably won’t be will Spring.

David

[typhoontye]

Hello Tor,

I’m hopeful I can design a system to deploy/re-deploy the solent stay easily and quickly. The lower end of the stay will store on the foredeck or somewhere else, not sure yet. I already have a very sturdy and large turnbuckle for the lower end. It has retractable handles built in that will allow me to tension/de-tension the stay without having to remove pins and go through a lot of machinations. The ‘highfield lever’ (I think it’s called) is another option, though a bit more expensive. The highfield lever has a single tensioning arm that facilitates tensioning/de-tensioning the stay with a single motion. There is an example of this in the photo gallery section, I think under ‘interior mods’ (oddly) on hull #152…can’t remember the vessel name, but since sold. I plan to have a blade sail built, probably 100%, with reef points so that it can be made much smaller should the occasion arise. Of course the solent rig would not be deployed for most daysailing or ‘around the buoys’ sort of sailing, but would be an option for heavy weather sailing, particularly for windward sailing. I think that in the Bahamas, during the winter, the solent would be the primary foresail. Of course I’ll keep the forum informed as this project develops, later this year or early 2016.

David

[typhoontye]

Thanks all for the replies and thoughts.

Based on what I’ve heard, I think my original thought is the best option for us and the sailing we do. Basically, I need the ability to fly a smaller headsail than my 135% roller furling genoa, but it needs to be a legitimate alternative for sailing upwind. Sounds like most of you don’t consider the staysail particularly helpful, and those that prefer to simply furl the genoa primarily sail downwind. Our sailing grounds consist of the Gulf of Mexico, with multi-day passages, and the Bahamas. We sail the Bahamas during the Winter months when prevailing Easterlies are in the 20-25 knot range, and frequently encounter similar conditions in the Gulf of Mexico, close reaching or even close hauled. Although the 424 is reasonably stiff, a partially furled genoa isn’t a good option in these conditions, particularly if efficient and reasonably flat sailing is a goal, which it is for us. I have no desire to fly two headsails, except perhaps dead downwind, so a removable stay, tacked as close as possible to the existing headstay sounds like the best alternative for us. Sheeting may be a challenge, but with the solent stay close to the existing headstay, it should be an easy matter to use the existing rail mounted track.

David

[typhoontye]

Hello all,

Here’s the info on the sink: Purchased from BK Resources, Hotel Supply Warehouse, INC, Deerfield Beach, FL. Can’t remember the price, but it was very reasonable compared to others.

Dimensions: Overall outside, 18″X24″ (outside of lip to outside of lip). Sinks, 13.75″X10″X10″(deep). Both sinks are identical.

I had to enlarge my opening somewhat, but my countertop wasn’t original. I ‘skewed’ the opening a bit towards the storage area (towards the outside of the hull), but there was still plenty of room between the sink and the storage area bulkhead to fit the fasteners. I skewed the sink that direction (maybe an inch or so) to accommodate my under counter trash can, which is standard on our boats. The trash container/can shut just fine, with no interference, but it is very close.

Hope this helps. I’m happy with my sink!

David

[typhoontye]

Hello Cindy,

The Corian was with the boat when we bought her. Same stuff in the forward cabin and in the head compartment. We’ve had guests stay in the forward cabin, and placed a fan on the main cabin sole blowing forward and they reported it was comfortable. Probably wouldn’t be during the day, but fine at night. Yes, the aft cabin cools very well. She likes it cold, so works out.

David

[typhoontye]

http://bluemoonsails.blogspot.com/

This is a link to our blog. We have pictures posted of our A/C unit and cabinetry installation. A few other items we’ve added as well.
Pat

[typhoontye]

We are hull number 189. I posted some pictures to our blog of the AC unit and cabinetry installed by the previous owner. It is a Cruisair. It’s a bit small for the boat but keeps us cool enough. We use a fan to help spread the cooled air. Our blog is http://bluemoonsails.blogspot.com/
If the link doesn’t work, you can copy and paste it.
Pat

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