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  • in reply to: Owners Guide for 424 Cutter #226057
    Revery
    Moderator

    Welcome Mike! We’ve got cutter #219. I won’t be at the boat until sometime in October, but I think our owner’s guide is cutter-specific. I’ll check when I get back and, if it is, I’ll scan and upload here.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: Owners Guide for 424 Cutter #226056
    Revery
    Moderator

    Welcome Mike! We’ve got cutter #219. I won’t be at the boat until sometime in October, but I think our owner’s guide is cutter-specific. I’ll check when I get back and, if it is, I’ll scan and upload here.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: Owners Guide for 424 Cutter #226055
    Revery
    Moderator

    I’m not at the boat right now, but I think we have one. It might take a couple months, but I’ll check when we’re back.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: diesel to electric motor conversion? #226006
    Revery
    Moderator

    Hey Rob,

    The batteries ran me about $4400 shipped (I’ve got a guy) and the generator/enclosure was another $6500 or so (can’t find the invoice). Keith on Vagari has a source for LiFPO4s that aren’t much more than my AGMs were.

    Total generator run-time was ~900 hours over 5000nm+ and 9 months. It gets turned on any time we plan on running the motors for more than 1/2 hour or so, just in case. I also attribute a lot of that to my old chargers only putting out about 55% of spec. It’ll be interesting to see how much I can reduce the hours with the new chargers.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: diesel to electric motor conversion? #226002
    Revery
    Moderator

    Hey Chris,
    I’ve been meaning to reply all week, but just now had the time to sit down and do it properly.
    Revery was converted to hybrid electric in the spring of 2018 and we’ve been very pleased, having put about 5000nm on her since then. This includes two extended trips to the Bahamas and a cruise around the Gulf of Mexico.

    We have a 20kw system from Electric Yacht and, while not perfect, it has performed very well. Our good friends have been buddy boating with an electric Pearson 36 (not Uma) that home-brewed (like Uma) and seem to be doing fine. I found value in having a well-engineered and pre-programmed system, so I spent the extra $. There’s nothing wrong with home-brews though, if you’re short on cash and long on time.
    The EY system was paired with a 48V 420aH bank made from 8x Northstar 210 Blue+ AGM batteries since, at that time, there were no readily available LiFPO4 batteries that could handle the continuous discharge rate we needed. They exist now and we’ll put them in when its time to replace the AGMs (5-7 years from now).
    The motors fit perfectly where the v-drive was and we remoted the motor controllers to the old engine pan. The batteries reside where the fuel tank was, in a custom tray that I glassed in. Electric Yacht has experience with at least three 424 conversions and will work closely with you to customize the shaft that couples to your existing prop shaft.
    To charge the batteries, we installed 1200 watts of solar over the cockpit and davits on a t-top like canopy stick built at the boat. Revery is a factory cutter so there’s no mizzen in the way. We’re adding another 400 watts this fall before we head to the Caribbean. Now, if you don’t want to motor far or for long, solar does really well, but we weren’t comfortable trusting our safety to a purely electric system. That’s where HYBRID comes into play.
    We installed a Next Gen 5.5kw generator with enclosure transversely on the old motor stringers. This is paired with a 48V/80a charger custom made for us in China. We started with a pair of US-made 40a chargers which were “supposed” to play well together, but never did, so we replaced them and kept one for backup. After 5000nm, it’s apparent to me that the chargers are the critical link in the system. We did fine with the old ones (learned how to adapt our cruising to their limitations), but having the ability to put 75+ amps into the batteries as we motor will be a game changer. I can go into much more detail as to the how/why later if you decide you’re interested in going down this path.

    All in all, it cost us about the same as putting in a new Beta 50 and gives us about the same power/speed. And even when we’re loading the generator, we burn no more than 1/3 gallon/hr or diesel. We carry 20g in a small tank in the starboard lazarette where the original battery boxes were so no loss of space. We also carry 15g in jerries on deck. Weight for the system without solar, even with the ridiculously heavy AGMS, came out to within ~65 lbs of the original setup with a full fuel tank. And we don’t have a smelly ancient diesel engine in our bedroom!

    A side benefit that we didn’t even think about was, when we’re at anchor, we have an obscene amount of energy in reserves…think 1640aH @ 12V. Enough that we could run the AC (we don’t) and our CruiseRO 20gph watermaker through our 3000w inverter. We’re even converting to electric cooking with a June Oven and a small induction cooktop. We wouldn’t have bothered with that, but our beloved Seaward Princess oven finally gave up the ghost (but might be repairable). It’ll stay in storage in case the all-electric experiment doesn’t work out.

    Anyway, long-winded I know. But I wanted to give you a good run-down of what we did. I worked with Keith on S/V Vagari when he was installing his system and, between my experience and his great mind, he put in a solid system using LiFPO4s. Hopefully, he’ll chime in here as well. If you’ve got any questions, feel free to ask on here for everyone’s benefit. We can sideline for the nitty gritty details if you end up thinking you want to do this.
    Converting definitely is NOT right for everyone, but we believe it pairs up with island hopping the Bahamas and Caribbean very well.

    Cheers,
    Evan
    S/V Revery #219

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Revery. Reason: edited tags
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Revery.
    3 users thanked author for this post.
    in reply to: Need ACTUAL cutter sail plan documents please! #224978
    Revery
    Moderator

    Not sure what you mean by the cutter plan is actually the sloop plan (perhaps a mix up on the site), but remember that the cutter mast is placed approximately a foot aft. That definitely changes the geometry of the fore-triangle.

    I’m away from the boat for two weeks, but I can get the actual height above deck of the tang when I get back.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: lifeline gates #224787
    Revery
    Moderator

    Rich,
    We did exactly the same thing…33″ stanchions from Garhauer. We also eliminated the lower lifeline cable from the gates aft. HUGE improvement and I highly recommend everyone else do it. In true Garhauer fashion, impeccable fit / finish and cheap.
    Next up, one of their rigid boom vangs and maybe jib cars.
    Well, as soon as we get back from loafing in the Bahamas for the last three months. Life could be worse. Ha!

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: Repower of Vagari with Electric Engine #224420
    Revery
    Moderator

    Keith and Becca,

    You’re correct that Revery was repowered with the exact system you purchased from Ewan. I’d be glad to pass along my lessons learned and some recommendations re: ancillary equipment.
    We’re very happy with the system so far. It definitely changes the way you can use the boat (no long ICW trips for instance), but not drastically. You just need to manage expectations.
    I plan on writing up the installation, but I haven’t yet found the time since we’ve moved on to other refit projects. Maybe while we’re in the Bahamas this winter…

    If you’d like, shoot me an email at hedonisticvalues at gmail and we can set up a time to chat.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: recommendations for a liability only insurance carrier? #224406
    Revery
    Moderator

    John,
    Surprisingly, Progressive has been great with us. We had to go through a broker, however, but even that has been great.
    Our liability, uninsured boater, and medical payments portion is $265 a year. Add $60 to that for the same on our tender.
    Granted, it’s probably lower since it’s bundled with comp and collision, but it’s a far sight better than what you were quoted.
    I’d suggest finding an independent agent who deals with Progressive. They do off-shore, so that shouldn’t be an issue.

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: Cetol should be banned #224200
    Revery
    Moderator

    I’m with you Rich. Revery’s bright work was all done in Cetol and it’s horrible. The toe rails will pretty much be it for teak on her…we already removed the coaming teak and the eyebrows are next. I’m dreading stripping that crap off 85+ feet of wood.
    Thanks for letting us know what you’re trying, since I have no clue what I want to use. 🙁

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: electric engine anyone done one?? on 424 #224179
    Revery
    Moderator

    All,
    Mea culpa…I need to walk back one statement. That’s what happens when I try to hurry and also type on my phone. It’s also why I’m reluctant to discuss all if this due to the potential of it becoming a pissing contest. Remember, you’re free to believe and do whatever you want. It’s your boat. Cheers.

    What I intended to say is “unlimited range at cruising speed”. Rich and Ryan are correct that an 8kw generator will not run a 20kw system indefinitely. Physics is a bitch about things like that. lol
    However, hull speed doesn’t require 20kw (sorry, Rich but you literally cannot do a simple apples to apples comparison using shaft HP, there are too many other variables. That and I’d like to know the efficiency of a 50-60 HP diesel when producing 40 shaft HP…if it even can). But I’m game to agree to disagree.

    Its a new system and I don’t have all the real world data points yet. But I’ll try to discuss the theoretical data as I’m able. So far, I know hull speed (or damn close) doesn’t require 20kw.

    Also, Ewan is spot on in that you have to adjust your expectations. I sail. And I’m confident that the system can be depended on to keep me out of trouble, albeit as a HYBRID solution.
    Ewan, it is the EY20… modified based in what they designed for you. Thanks!

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: electric engine anyone done one?? on 424 #224170
    Revery
    Moderator

    Revery is now electric powered. I’ve been traveling way too much to do a proper write up yet, but here are a few observations. To set this up, we are preparing for a long term, long distance cruise, NOT coastal. Dan Kalinowski installed one for coastal, so if he chimes in, his installation and results will match his particular use. So here goes.

    1. We cannot use electric without generator backup. 8kw is PLENTY for our 20kw system and we can get unlimited range at hull speed with it, as long as we have diesel.

    2. 20kw at 48 VDC will drive us at hull speed into wind and chop if needed.

    3. 20kw of TPPL telecom batteries plus the propulsion system was almost the exact weight of engine, tank, fuel, and vdrive. 65 lbs lighter to be exact. Generator, small tank, and fuel then added less than 500 lbs. We added weight up front to mostly offset that.

    4. Motors fit where the vdrive was VERY well and the controllers can be put anywhere you want within about 6 feet of the motors (or more).

    5. The system is designed to regenerate while sailing (think hydro generator) and drag / amps in is adjustable on the fly.

    6. We’ll be adding ~1.2kw of solar to supplement charging…reducing generator time. It helps but doesn’t completely replace the generator.

    7. Total cost including solar and all wiring/breakers/etc., minus generator was ~$17k but that includes the expendables (batteries), which is analogous to 5-7 years of diesel for our old W58 (usage, not price). Make sure you’re comparing apples to apples, folks!

    8. Had we not gotten a stellar deal on a great used generator, we would have bought a Beta Marine engine instead. That is the long pole in the tent.

    9. I did ALL the work, solo, in 4.5 weeks. Removal of engine, tank, and all the associated junk. Cleaning and bilge painting. Electric installation and battery box. NOT tidied up, as I did that in the slip to minimize yard time.

    So this IS doable and won’t break the bank. A new Beta would have been ~$14.5k without associated junk needed to install it.

    YMMV and I’ll try to start a post soon detailing everything. Is this for everyone? No. But it will serve us well.

    Btw, Rich, no one wants to buy our boats anyway, just look at the market. LOL (I jest…a bit)

    Evan
    Revery #219

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    in reply to: Mast pulpits again #224153
    Revery
    Moderator

    David,

    Count us in.
    Thanks for doing the legwork!

    Evan
    Revery #219

    in reply to: Mast pulpits again #224145
    Revery
    Moderator

    Florida. 32952, commercial address
    Thanks again!

    in reply to: Mast pulpits again #224143
    Revery
    Moderator

    David,
    I know they have no way of giving an exact quote yet, but have they given you any idea re: shipping costs?

    Thanks,
    Evan
    Revery #219

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 111 total)