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A couple of Velcro pieces along the inboard underside of the seat cushions sounds like just the thing. (Why didn’t I think of that?) That solves that one.
As for the backs, simplicity is the order of the day since I’m on a mission to get going soon. Maybe something with bungee cord, instantly removable so it’s not there (or showing) in port, and instantly ready to secure the backs when getting underway.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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My boat has no covering over those storage locker apertures outboard of the salon settees other than the plywood-backed cushions, which are held there by Velcro. I don’t think they’re going to stay put once I start sailing, and I know the settee bottom cushions slide out onto the cabin sole when the boat’s heeled. It’s something I’ll obviously have to remedy very soon. Like Bob, I’d be interested in what others have done.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Aye, she was of a time ever so much more elegant than the present. What a beauty!
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Island Packet, maybe. Valiant’s in another league altogether.
Kudos to your aunt & uncle!
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Aha! Great minds, indeed. I did the same thing – added a wire tail that remained on the foredeck fitting – when I set up the inner forestay on my last boat. The stay and quick release lever were then the right length to stow at the rail alongside the mast. Worked out just fine. I’ll probably do it again on this boat. Hadn’t thought you could do that with a Solent stay, they being necessarily longer, but if you can good on you, mate.
I’m in the midst of assembling and mounting the hardware for my inner forestay. Got the mast hound from the machine shop 2 days ago, fussed with it yesterday and today, and am now procrastinating going aloft to drill the mounting holes in my mast. The hefty Holt folding double-pad-eye deck fitting arrived just this morning via Fed Ex, a mere month and change after I ordered it from Port Supply. (I guess their suppliers sometimes procrastinate, too.) The big L-shaped backing plate w/strut that ties the deck fitting & underlying foredeck to the chain locker bulkhead belowdecks is being welded up today. The whole is coming together bit by bit.
Meanwhile, several other projects going simultaneously, as usual. And I’m scheduled to haul out any time now. Busy boy.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Your explanations are much appreciated, John. Initially I hoped to avoid running backs by attaching my inner forestay just a foot or so above the spreaders, but gave that up because it created a staysail too small for anything but storm jib service. Now I’ll follow Bob Fine’s example of securing rarely used but comfortingly available running backs that’ll mostly live on the rail just abaft the main aft lowers, but can be shifted well aft and cinched up in a real blow.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Bob,
Sure, you’re preaching to the choir about the staysail. On my last boat I had a sail bag made that fastened around the inner forestay so the hanked-on staysail was always in place, ready to hoist. Sounds like you accomplished that with your old mizzen cover. Cool! I once sailed through a 5-day tropical storm just this side of the Azores under reefed staysail alone and it served very well. In general, for offshore passages the staysail went up and stayed up the whole way, with the other sails growing and shrinking around it as conditions dictated. The exception, of course, were long downwind runs (which were somehow much less frequent than long upwind beats).
I wonder about the 424’s standard ketch rig in a blow. Would be interested to hear how other owners deal with it. I believe it was designed in the days when sailors continually switched various hanked-on headsails according to need, and so the rig worked. Today, however, with roller furling genoas the norm, it is no longer an effective rig by itself. When the wind gets up the skipper is left with no option but to roll up the jenny to a safe size. In 50 knots of wind that’s a very small, sadly misshapen and inefficient headsail. Downright dangerous on a lee shore. I can’t imagine not having some ready headsail alternatives for hard conditions, be it Solent, staysail or even changing roller jibs as the old timers changed their hank-on’s.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Ah, thank you John. I really was ignorant of that and I’m glad to learn more. Having the Solent stay removable for day sails makes all the difference, though is seems an awfully long wire to move aside – it must overlap the rail by a few feet – and cumbersome if it carries roller furling.
Offhand I can think of 3 advantages to the staysail: (1) The extra slot created adds power to the rig when flown with the genoa – Bob says it gives his boat an extra knot, (2) you can often tack a genoa thru that slot so the wire can remain in place much of the time, and (3) the staysail as a heavy weather headsail – especially as a storm jib when deep-reefed or replaced with a dedicated storm jib – is closer to the boat’s center of gravity, a more stable placement of that sail’s force. I’m curious. What advantages of the Solent rig over the double headsail (Bob’s muahaha “cutter ketch”) rig caused you to choose that instead?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Clubless cutter-rigged Bermudian inner forestaysail double-headed gaffless clewless monohull aft cockpit Marconi ketch it is, then! Can I get an Amen.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Joe,
I’m not sure there is an alternative to the Solent rig, which seems to be in a class by itself. What I’m setting up on my boat is a double headsail ketch rig, what some (mistakenly) call a “cutter ketch.” In other words, I’m installing an inner forestay on my ketch-rigged boat to carry a staysail, just as a cutter-rigged sailboat has an inner forestay that carries a staysail. In many cases, this inner forestay requires running backstays to “balance” the forward pulling force it puts on the mainmast when the boat’s working hard to windward, since it attached to the mast roughly in between the spreaders and the masthead.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Thanks, Pat. Yes, the web is awesome. So is this owners’ group, with the advantage of you guys (and gal) sometimes being more direct regarding Pearson 424-specific questions.
Without meaning to stir up another religious hornets’ nest of opinion here, I personally don’t care for the Solent stay rig, however popular it has become of late. Sure, it’s easier to add on at first since it obviates running backstays, etc, but after that the skipper is apparently forever after having to roll up the genoa to tack! Wow. That strikes me as an unacceptably impractical compromise to the daily sailing of any boat – but that’s only for myself. I know there are some of us here who have Solent stays and like them – love them, even! I salute you and freely confess my complete ignorance. For my part, I have sailed enough ocean miles on other boats with a staysail rig to be convinced of its functional value, verily its virtual necessity for sailing when the ship hits the proverbial fan – for me, the way I sail a boat; not necessarily for anyone else the way they chose to sail their boat.
I do agree it makes apparent sense to use just one wire size from a replacement viewpoint as that fellow said, but my boat came rigged with 5/16″ shrouds, 3/8″ fore- and backstays, a variety of clevis pin sizes and skinny little standing rigging for the mizzen that I automatically upsized to 1/4″. So I’m already a veritable rigging shop underway where wire & pin sizes are concerned, way beyond the one size fits all approach.
I agree, too, that the running back wires can probably be lighter than the standing rigging around them for the reasons that writer named. So with a 5/16″ inner forestay, I guess the desirable running backstay wire diameter I was looking for is 1/4″, where erring on the beefier side is desirable. Thanks for those pointers.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Yes, the main running backs, for balancing the mast bend of an inner forestay flying a staysail. Thanks, Bob, that’s the length answer I was seeking. How did you come up with that? Is it a rigging axiom, or just what makes sense to you? Also, what wire diameter seems right for that?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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TYPO
I meant to ask, “What is the diameter and length of the wire portion” of your running backstays?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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JB,
Sure, there’s no harm in bedding it after it has had a good long period of dry-out time so you don’t trap moisture in there. However, I’d advise against using 5200 for this. You don’t need any kind of adhesion in this case, just sealant. If you ever do want to remove the cap rail in the future, the 5200 will be a bear to deal with. Something like BoatLife’s Life Caulk would be more appropriate.
Tor
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Well, all that is too advanced for this country boy. I do not plan to polish or otherwise fuss with this piece. Its sheer thickness, not to mention the fact that it’ll live 27′ above the coachhouse, leaves me believing it’ll outlive all of us. And I’m going to live until 2073. After that it’s the next owner’s problem.
I have added a 1/8″ sheathing of a Teflon-like plastic as a barrier between the inside of the stainless steel hound strap and the surface of the aluminum mast, to avoid any kind of electrolysis there.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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