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Pat
If your stick has not been removed for several years, it may be impossible to get it out in one piece. We had a thread about this a year ago or so. I helped a guy at my club yard remove his main mast. We used a large crane. We successfully lifted the boat about two feet out of the water with no sign of the mast coming free. The owner ended up cutting the base of the mast off using a sawzall.The mast step is iron and it sits in the bilge. It will rust. In the process it swells and clamps around the mast base. The base is made of aluminum. It corrodes and forms a bond with the iron.
After cutting the mast as low as you can, you can remove the mast step and glass in a step. The new step will be a few inches higher than the old step. Make the hight difference the same measurement as what you cut off.
Rich
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I’m having some difficulty translating to English. I assume you’re asking where the block originally comes from. As I remember, it started life as a British Leyland motor used in cabs during the ’50s and ’60s. It may have also been used in some Land-Rover vehicles of that time. Production of the marinized version ended in the late ’70s. At that time, Pearson bought up a bunch of them at a discount to fit out their existing schedule of 424’s. Since the engine has been out of production for about 30 years, the supply of parts is very scarce. This is quite unfortunate since the engine had proven to be quite reliable. Its only faults are that its very difficult to bleed and like many period British engines it tends to leak oil.
The group here has collected a few junked W60 engines and collectively have used spares. Owners may be reluctant to part with their spares unless like me they give up and repower. Transatlantic Diesels was a good source for parts and information if you can put up the the guy who runs the place. He has quite a lot of experience with this particular engine. I believe he once worked as a Land-Rover mechanic.
External parts such as starter, alternator and lift pump shouldn’t be difficult to repair or replace. The starter is a generic item used in industrial engines such as forklift trucks. If your lift pump needs service you can bypass it and put in an electric pump. High-pressure fuel lines might pose a problem. A good shop should be able to custom fabricate them however. The high-pressure pump is a generic industrial pump that you should be able to service at a good shop ($$$). Anything inside the engine and good luck. I would assume that there’s a good supply of things like valve-seals, rings and bearings over in England somewhere. Maybe someone has a contact for these parts. Somone in the group recently rebuilt one, was it Chuck? He must have found a supply somewhere.
Regards
Rich – BlackSheep #47
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Consider a day-tank.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/day-tank-for-diesel-fuel-17950.html
I considered this kind of installation. Its kind of neat. It avoids the return line problem, it lets you run your tanks dry, and lets you know when you have just a few gallons left.
If done properly, you put three level switches in the day tank. One if it overlflows to sound an alarm. One just below that to turn on the transfer pump when it gets down a gallon or so. One half-way down to sound an alarm if you run your draw tank dry. This tells you to switch tanks. Normally you would draw from the day-tank using the low-pressure pump, so it isn’t critical where you put it. Ask a tank fabricator if they know how to make one.
Rich
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Alan
Do you have an O-ring on your fuel-fill cap? My boat didn’t come with one. I don’t honestly know if they are supposed to have one, but they should. I had all kinds of problems with water in the fuel until I put one under the cap. There is no reason to have any measurable water in your fuel tank. The only other entry point is the vent. I’ve been out in conditions where waves come over the stern quarter. So far I haven’t taken any water into the fuel tank but it worries me. Maybe someone makes a check-valve or the thing should be relocated to the inside of a stanchion tube.Regards
Rich
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If you have access to a small crane, pulling the engine isn’t a big deal. Its mostly simple wrench-work. It should take a matter of a few hours to disconnect everything and pull it. This makes a good winter project. I’ve lifted the engine from its mounts using a simple pulley arrangement tied to a beam across the bridge-deck without using a crane. It would be a simple matter to slide in some wooden beams and rollers to slide the engine forward with it lifted off its mounts. Refrigerator rollers would work. Its much easier and safer with a small crane however. Pulling it out of the boat gives you room to work around the engine compartment and complete access to the engine. I’ve rented a small crane by the hour from a local sign company. If you’re going through all the work to move the engine you might as well pull it out. You can expect to remove the alternator and possibly the starter depending on engine model number to make it narrow enough to pull through the hatch. If you decide to pull the engine, soak everything with PB-Blaster the week before you start taking stuff apart. It will make the job go easier.
Most 424 tanks are aluminum. I know of no way to replace the tank without pulling the engine. It might be possible to cut the existing tank out without pulling the engine. There is no way to replace it in the same position. You could replace it with a pair of saddle tanks, one on each side of the boat. If you didn’t put a fuel tank under the cockpit what else would you do with the space? There’s poor access otherwise it might be a good spot for a genset or battery bank.
With the V-drive arrangement, alignment of the engine isn’t critical when replacing. Still, there are alignment tolerances that should be observed. Read your V-drive manual for instructions.
Pulling the engine is something that you can expect to do more than once. I’ve pulled mine twice and lifted it in place twice to service engine mounts. Consider making it easier the next time around. Replace fasteners with stainless where possible. Do what you can to make access to nuts on the underside of the engine pan easier to get at.
Rich
BlackSheep #47
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Pete
I could probably add a few comments to what’s posted on my notes.You can expect to damage one or more engine mounts when pulling the engine. The rubber gets soft when it ages. I suggest planning on replacing all four. You’ll probably also find that the engine pan flange has sagged. There are a couple of ways to fix this. The top flange has stringers glassed in on each side of the pan. If these were in contact with the underside of the flange I don’t think it would sag. You could try and insert some shims. I like the steel angle-iron flange I used. Since the nuts are welded to the underside it makes replacing the mounts pretty simple. No nuts to hold on the underside.
Just because Westerbeke used dark red paint is no reason to stick with the same color. A lighter color paint brightens the engine room and makes working on the engine easier. I used Caterpillar yellow.
While you have the fuel tank out, its easier to reach the underside of the pedestal for service.
Rich
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An alternate method to do the same thing is to put a 6V relay on your tach line from your alternator. When the engine is up to speed, it will close the relay. The reduced voltage is because the tach signal is a half-wave signal and therefore half the 12v alternator output.
Rich
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Linus
A few beers and winds would be a good deal!I had assumed that you had an engine-driven system. I was unaware that Pearson offered a 12v system with holding plates. The nice thing about an electric compressor is you can run the system without using your engine when tied to a dock. The disadvantage of such a setup is that the electric compressors are much smaller than an engine-driven system, approximately 1/10 the HP rating. They don’t consume their maximum rated load for the entire running cycle so the comparison between a small and large compressor isn’t linear. An electric compressor will still require longer running times. I’ve considered changing to an electric compressor, but I’m so rarely tied to a dock that there’s no urgency in switching over. I’ve replaced my compressor four times in the 23 years I’ve owned the boat. The last unit I installed is a Sanden rotary compressor. I hope its more reliable than the York piston pumps that I’ve had in the past. In theory, I could drive an engine-driven compressor with an electric motor. The largest motor I can run off 115v is about 3hp. That’s a small engine-driven compressor. I’d need a pretty big inverter and alternator to run something like that. For my cruising habits, I’m happy with the setup I have.
Seafrost lists a DC 5000 system for $3400. That includes a 12v 1/2 hp compressor, condenser, and evaporator without holding plates.
http://www.seafrost.com/dc5000.htmThat’s a lot of money to replace your unit if it can be salvaged. The engine-driven compressors have a drain hole in the bottom to allow you to replace the oil. I don’t know if your unit has the same fitting. It may be sealed. I’ve heard that you don’t necessarily need to replace your oil. There are conversion kits available at Walmart that adds R-134 compatible oil to your system. I don’t know if these work well.
http://www.technauticsinc.com/manuals/Retrofit%20Kit.pdfI drained the oil in my old system and replaced with R-134 compatible oil when I switched over. There are several types of R-134 compatible oil.
http://www.aircondition.com/tech/questions/49/Which-Oil-to-Use-with-R-134a%3F
Regarding your question, it would be straightforward to run down to Radio Shack and buy a 115v relay. When your shore power or inverter is on, it would close the relay. You could switch in either 12v or ground to your refrigeration system to turn it on.
Rich
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Linus
Before spending any money on your system I recommend getting one of the books listed below. Then you’ll be able to make informed decisions.Your engine driven system is aging. If you can find someone who will service it cheap or learn to service it youself, it can probably provide good service for many more years. They are maintenance items. If you’re paying shop rates to get the thing serviced it can put you in the poor house (or boat). If you don’t have the patience or confidence to learn to service it yourself you might look around to see if you can find someone who service car AC systems. That’s basically what an engine-driven system is.
On the other hand, a complete new 12v system doesn’t come cheap either. Sorry, you’re between a rock and a hard-place.
If you get yourself a set of AC gauges (harbor freight has good prices) and a half-dozen cans of R-134 from Walmart you’ll have enough to get your system up and running again. You have nothing to lose except pearhaps an old compressor that you might damage by overcharging the system. If you have questions about specifics, fire away. We’ll try to coach you through it.
Rich
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My guess is that you have the same unit that was put in my boat 30 years ago when she was built. If you like an engine driven system and don’t mind learning enough about servicing it to keep it running you might consider fixing it. Your yard is giving you the wrong information. In either case you might want to buy one of the two books on the page below.
http://www.kollmann-marine.com/To switch to R-134, you need only replace the oil in your compressor and recharge the system. You may optionally change the expansion valve but it isn’t necessary. If your compressor is an original piston type compressor you could replace it with a new rotary compressor for about $300. In theory, you could remove the damaged tube and have someone make a new piece. Retrofit or replace your compressor. Run a vacuum on your system and recharge with R-134 and be back in business.
Rich
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Just to muddy the water, retrofitting to R-134 is pretty straightforward if you want to repair what you have.
Rich
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Dan
The bilge is not a great place to mount pumps like this. They aren’t sealed units and the bilge is very damp. If you can find a place to mount it above the bilge it will require less care. Last year I relocated mine to the space under the galley sink next to the pressure water pump. I had to disassemble the motor and clean it with PB-Blaster. I then wire brushed the motor housing and painted the whole thing. This is far less expensive than replacing the unit.Rich
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Tor
I don’t know what the capacity of the pump is. This looks like my pump.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bilge-pump-jabsco-diaphram-pump-8-gpm_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45eec15fabQQitemZ300358393771QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGearIt was never intended to be used to prevent flooding though in an emergency every little bit helps. The nice thing about a diaphram pump is that you can mount them up high and have it drain the bilge almost down to dry. You really can’t do this with an impeller pump. Capacity isn’t an issue. I suppose a midget could get into the bilge and somehow mount an impeller pump down at the bottom of the sump. I’d never get my fat ass down there. I’d need the jaws-of-life to get me out if I ever fell down there. If I ever mounted one down there, I’d need some way to remove it during the winter. They don’t like ice, and whatever is left down there would surly freeze.
Rich
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Pete
As far as I know, this was standard. I’ve heard of at least one owner who
refitted with 20lb cylinders. This sounds like a lot of work.Have you considered putting a table in the cockpit? There would be room in
there to stow two 6lb bottles.Rich
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Dan
Shower sump boxes are a maintenance issue. Hair and other stuff gets stuck in there. I suggest running the drain hose right to the pump with a strainer to protect the pump. You’ll have to open and clean the pump every so often, but if you mount it conveniently its easy to clean. I put mine under the galley sink.I put a Y valve on the sump drain pump. This needs a self-priming pump. You can get them on ebay fairly reasonably. I put a bronze strainer on the end of the hose where it lays in the bilge. This keeps large stuff out and weighs down the end of the hose. This will do a good job draining the bilge.
Rich
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