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Rich,
For the sake of trim and stability, clearly the ideal is to locate the heaviest things in a boat as close to the center of gravity as possible. Your main battery location accomplishes that in spades. Still, virtually every decision on a boat is a compromise, a trade-off. While your battery weight is ideally placed, as you noted the batteries themselves are subject to submersion should the bilges flood. You also have relatively long cable runs to carry current to and from that location, which translates into an additional installation cost and a small drop in voltage each way. All in all, though, I think you chose well. (Silver Heels has her holding tank under there.)
My battery locations shorten the cable lengths to a minimum and keep the batteries out of the water until later in the process of sinking, but the weight is not as close to the center of gravity as yours (but a lot better than Pearson’s solution). Compromises & trade-offs. I wonder if large battery installations way aft, like those near the steering quadrant, will have a noticeable effect on the boat’s trim and tendency to hobbyhorse. On a boat as stout as our 424’s, I suspect it’ll be at least tolerable.
Aaron, no doubt you’re now more confused on this issue than ever. Choose your poison!
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Aaron,
Moving batteries “forward and down” from Pearson’s original location makes sense. Personally, I never cared for their vulnerable location out there, anyway. Alternatives to your plan could include putting some or all in the lower section of the “hanging” locker immediately to starboard of the main companionway ladder, and/or in the aftermost locker beneath the captain’s bunk, immediately to port of the main companionway ladder. On Silver Heels I did both, installing the engine start battery in the foot of the starboard locker, and a 5-battery house bank in the bunk locker to port. (Also put a dedicated windlass battery just aft of the forward water tank beneath the V-berth.)
I still have the original Pearson battery boxes in place in the starboard cockpit locker. I removed the false bottoms and presently use them as storage bins. I may cut them out of there eventually, though, to take better advantage of that space.
I got rid of Pearson’s original engine switches in the starboard cockpit locker when I re-powered. All engine controls are now contained in a new panel inset into Pearson’s original, covered engine gauge area on the forward vertical bulkhead of the cockpit well.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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You’ve got a ways to go, John. Last night it also reached low-mid 40’s here on the St. John’s River (30 mi south of Jacksonville, FL). We don’t expect to see daytime 70’s again ’til Friday. I recommend Martinique. Then you can drain the tanks and fill ’em up with rum.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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(See what happens when you go looking for trouble?)
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Thank you all for your smart feedback on this subject. I believe I’m thinking in terms of a smaller staysail
than some of you carry. Nevertheless, I’ve concluded it’ll behoove me to consult a professional rigger about
how best to calculate and deal with the shroud & mast loads inflicted by an inner forestay in use. I’d still
like to avoid running backs if I safely can. Whether to carry the inner forestay’s load downward belowdecks to
the hull, or just strengthen the deck and hull/deck joint enough to take it directly is something I need to
consider some more.Glad I asked.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I replaced the aft pegboard section with 1/2″ plywood I had lying around – 2 horizontal sections to make removal easier – and drilled holes through all over them to reduce weight and encourage ventilation. I painted them and put a Lexan window in the lower piece to allow visual inspection of the rudder post stuffing box, etc, with out removing the “bulkhead.” The port & starboard pegboard pieces in my boat are still in pretty good shape. Will eventually replace them, too, with hole-peppered, painted plywood.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Robert (and anyone else with input to share),
I realize I’m weeks late for this discussion. I’ve been away (at the Annapolis boat shows) and am just now catching up on the group emails. In fact, I found I haven’t been getting any of them at all since 10/08 due to a host server screw-up. Hopefully that is now corrected.)
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the following: I plan to install an inner forestay for the purpose of flying a small, hanked-on, heavily built staysail reef-able to a storm jib. My idea is to run the wire from a tang just above the spreaders to a deck fitting maybe 6″ forward of the coachhouse. This should obviate the need for running backstays, which I’d rather avoid, since the fixed aft lowers will take the strain. I’m hoping the genoa will have ample room to tack through the large slot, but if not I’ll just keep the inner forestay stowed off to the side when day-sailing. Of course, I’ll have to reinforce the foredeck at the attachment point and carry the load out to the hull. That’s likely to be the biggest part of the job, building in a deck beam & knees. Finally, I intend to rig the staysail to be self-tending, though free-footed, using an athwartships track across the coachhouse forward of the mast, with a single sheet led aft through a couple of deck-mounted fairlead blocks.
Ideas/comments/suggestions?
Thanks,
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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PS: Mine sits at the far forward end of the deep bilge.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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My ss plate is 6″ wide (and 12″ long). It fits well enough and doesn’t seem to move, but it could easily be 2″ wider. Of course, I have no idea if all 424 deep bilge bottoms are alike. Mine appears to be as originally built.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Sounds good, Rich. I guess the point is to have several separate pumps available, electric and manual, with plenty of extra pumping capacity if things get dicey.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Oh, Lee, now you’re opening up one of those thousand-opinions subjects. OK, I’ll play. Here’s my set up, which I’m presently in the process of finishing up:
– 1 electric pump, float-switch activated
– 2nd electric pump, remote, manually activated
– 1 manual pump by the helm
– 2nd manual pump in the cockpit, via a Y-valve allowing the holding tank’s Whale Gusher pump-out to pull from the bilge
– Engine raw water pump via a Y-valve to pull from the bilge, through a bilge screen and the raw water strainer
– Possibly: Y-valve to allow the deck washdown pump to pull from the bilgeAll of these pull from what I call the deep sump, that wonderfully cavernous area abaft the ballast shelf and forward of the engine into which all bilge water eventually empties – at least, on my boat.
If things get really scary, I also have a few buckets aboard.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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You’re right, Pat, in that my pump is necessarily 3/8″ off the bottom of the sump because the stainless steel mounting plate is that thick. In addition, the float switch, also 3/8″ off the bottom because of the mounting plate, needs a little additional water level to kick in. However, the manual bilge pump is as flat on the bottom as can be and that keeps the water level down to a sliver.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Walter,
Sounds like maybe it’s time to clean your boat’s bilge. If you then paint it (white!), you’ll be able to spot leaks in the future as they occur, whether oil or water, and deal with them early on.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Rodd,
A PO mounted the electric bilge pump and float switch in my boat on a 3/8″ thick, rectangular stainless steel plate with 4 small, stainless bales welded around it. Lines tied to these bales lead pyramid-fashion to a single hoisting line, which in turn ties to a vertical floor timber within reach from the open hatch above. This way I can lift the entire bilge pump assembly up and out of the bilge for service, or just to get it out of the way so I can climb down in there for general access, things that would be pretty awkward to do if you screw a mounting pad into the floor of the sump. The sheer weight of the stainless plate obviates the need to fasten it to the bottom of the bilge. The plate is sized to fit the breadth of the sump floor so that it will not move no matter how the boat rocks or heels.
I then wired the bilge pump float switch to sound a beeper in the nav station, and to yellow LED lights in the nav station and in the cockpit, so I’ll be aware when it’s cycling on. I have not installed a counter, but they’re a good idea, too, so you’ll know if the pump has been working – and how often – in your absence.
In addition, I mounted another float switch on a small shelf about 18″ above the sump floor as a high water alarm switch. That leads to a car horn mounted in the nav station, and also to red LED lights located as above.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Thanks for the Walter manual, Pat. Didn’t have it and am glad to now have it aboard.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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