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Bob,
I think in your comment on WAAS you confused it with Differential GPS (DGPS). WAAS is (I believe) still a major part of the FAA navigation plans and really wasn't that expensive to implement. They just bought space on other people's satellites. DGPS uses a large number of land stations that broadcast corrections to the GPS data, but you need a radio receiver integrated with a GPS to get the corrections. DGPS is a USCG system, WAAS belongs to the FAA. The WAAS system is still being actively enhanced, but I don't think we'll see any of the benefits (I don't think we really need an instrument to tell us our altitude) as it is being developed for the aviation industry and an automated landing and takeoff system.
With regard to eLoran, I think I read that it will be implemented using the same DGPS land stations. That's little bit a concern as my Navtex receiver is constantly clogged with messages announcing such and such DGPS station is off the air. If the USCG can't keep the DGPS transmitters working, what does that tell us about eLoran?On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Lee bow the tide is one of the first expressions I learned after bow, stern, port and starboard. Crabbing is the attitude of the boat rather than the direction. It's the local phenomena rather that the strategy of sailing a course that takes the current into account. It turns out that it means, literally, to have the current on the leeward bow, giving you a push towards your destination. But I think it's been generalized to mean heading above or below your course to make up for the current. Crossing the Gulf Stream, I suspect, you'd usually have the current from the southish and the wind from the same-ish direction. To truly lee bow, the wind would have to be from the NW-ish.I'm hoping for that sort of crossing. But I'll take any good weather…
Bob
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Now, “leebowing the tide” is a term I've never heard before. Where'd you learn it? I understand it perfectly, but have always called it crabbing. In the past when I knew the current was there, as with the Gulf Stream between Miami and Bimini, I'd plot a current vector before leaving. No doubt the true route wound up a bit wobbly since the current isn't consistent all the way across, but it always got me there. Now with GPS telling me my COG, I can instantly see if it's different than my (corrected) compass course and steer accordingly. I guess I'm just going to be stubborn about avoiding more gadgets to do things I can already do with what I've got, but clearly the Loran E is an improvement over the old C and could be useful if you're within its range. Thanks for updating me.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Rich,
I was going to say my Yanmar produces scalding hot water, but then I thought and realized I rarely use the engine for that purpose. So most of that scalding water was produced while running the engine under load for an hour or more. I use my generator to charge batteries and run the fridge when at anchor and it powers the electric water heater. However, I did use the engine for those purposes at idle speed much of last winter when my generator was out of commission and I don't remember having a problem making hot, if not scalding, water. I'm sure I would have noticed if the water was just luke warm. I normally ran the engine for about 1 hour twice a day during the periods.
I suspect there is a problem somewhere in the delivery of coolant from the engine through the tank. I seem to remember that you put in a much larger tank than the standard 6 gal Raritan that I have. That might account for part of the longer time it takes to heat the tank, but I wouldn't think it would be as significant as you report.On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I'm somewhat frustrated by the lack of hot water when cruising. I find my Yanmar engine doesn't make hot water unless I run the engine under load for at least an hour or two. I could probably idle all day and not get any hot water. I guess they did too good a job with the cooling system. Do any other Yanmar owners have a similar experience?
I've probably resigned myself to cold water. We boil water for dishes. This doesn't help with showers. I've considered doing what I did with my old boat, a pump-up garden sprayer filled with warm water. I almost bought a generator a month or so ago, but I decided that I have no convenient place to put one large enough to heat water. Any ideas?
Regards
Rich—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Aaron,
Neat work and if the dog approves there can be no greater justification. Now about the cushions and backrests ….On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
He’s a new project I just finished that I thought might interest the group. Elevated cockpit seats.
For as long as I’ve had the boat I’ve had a hard time seeing while driving her. That and no cup-holder convenient to the helm which is just criminal! Finally I broke down and decided to do something about it.
Initially I was going to have two supports, one flat and one angle so that the seat would be flat while the boat was heeled. I was going to use SS pins to secure it to each rail. But then I decided I was over thinking it and I just made them flush, which seems to work very well.
IT’s a very straightforward project, the back of the seat is supported by a 1×1” piece of hdpe plastic from Mcmaster Carr. The legs are 7/8” SS rail and 90 degree mounts from West Marine.
The Seats themselves are “seafoam” color starboard which matches the color of the gelcoat almost exactly. Total cost probably about $150.I used a scrap piece of starboard as a foot on the propane locker, and hinged the board on that side for easy access to the propane bottles. The Stbd side is screwed in permanently.
I was going to do something with the space beneath but the dog has sort of commandeered the spot as ‘hers’ when sailing so I may just leave it be 🙂Pictures here: http://ontheboat.net/gallery2/v/Ra/Projects/seats/
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Patrick,
Just to maintain my curmudgeon standing, I remember the so-called experts saying, “Everyone will have their NMEA 2000 gear out shortly”, but that was in 2002!
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:0183 was never really followed strictly as a standard both at the protocol or the hardware level, so I'm not going to introduce any of it into my system.
Everyone will have their NMEA 2000 gear out shortly…
-p
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com<.. snip>
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Actually, before GPS, getting within 20 nm of your position when approaching Bermuda was not all that bad if you were running a DR most of the way. Our Loran fix on the way to Bermuda was better than that, but we were probably just lucky. Now everyone drives right up to St. Davids following their GPS. In the 80s (I know more old fart lore) we used the Gibbs Hill Light and RDF beacon to approach the reefs from a safe direction. We did it at night on those races, but that was racing. Without GPS and cruising I would have waited until daylight.Â
Scary thinking about using an RDF bearing to approach reefs. A longer time ago I was approaching Cape May, NJ from about 50 nm off-shore and I wanted to get a RDF fix using the Cape Henlopen and Atlantic City beacons. The LOP from Atlantic City looked OK, but the Henlopen LOP put me somewhere on the Garden State Freeway.On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Er, ah, if you can only get within 20 miles with your sextant you probably shouldn't be using it as a primary means of navigation. You could very easily miss Bermuda altogether. Six miles is fair to middling and I know people who are within one mile most of the time. If you're headed to Europe or Africa, 20 miles is ok.Here is the Naval Observatory's information on the current satellite status: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/gpscurr.html you can check the status of the current groups. The newest ones were launched a this year and have a lifetime of seven or so years. The whole constellation seems to need replenishment every 10-15 years or so.
This summer I've seen the GPS go out for more than several minutes (once for almost an hour) at least three times. Made me wish I had cleaned my speedo…
Bob
Anyway, it pays to keep track of where you are…
Bob
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 2:46 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Offshore is relative. I've been able to receive a fix to within about 20 miles of accuracy near Bermuda. That's better than nothing and about what you can expect with a sextant. This was done with a good LORAN, a Micrologic 9000S. Some of the less expensive units have a less sensitive receiver and won't provide a fix that far out. Even though offshore coverage is sketchy, its worth having a backup for coastal navigation.Here's a chart that shows coverage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World-loran-map.pngI was one of the many engineers who worked on the GPS satellite back in the late '70s. The GPS chain can and will go down for a number of reasons. We've become so dependent on it that most folks can't get home without it. Owners no longer prepare deviation cards for their compasses. Basic navigation equipment such as depthsounder and speed through water may be missing, inaccurate, or not working. They may not have the skill to get home even with the equipment. Even with these skills, operators might not really know where they are if the chain goes down. “Oh, I was following the GSP to Provincetown. I should be there in five hours, but I have no idea what my coordinates were were when the GPS stopped working. Please send out a coast-guard boat that I can follow home.”
Micrologic used to make a handheld unit that ran on batteries. You can still find them occasionally on ebay for short money. One of the nice things about this unit is that it will probably still work even if your boat gets hit by lightening. Its cheap insurance.
Regards
Rich
BlackSheep #47
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I was pretty skeptical of the eLoran project when it was first announced a number of years ago. It didn't seem to have an agency with deep pockets (e.g., DOD) that would own and fund it. At the time I think only the USCG was pushing hard for it. They were in the Transportation Dept then, not one of the agencies whose budget was sacred. I wasn't going to invest in something that a bureaucrat in OMB could wipe out at any time. Now I understand Homeland Security (probably the USCG is still pushing) has made it a priority, so I guess it will have some funding continuity. I also noticed recently that Europe has funded the implementation of eLoran, so its near-term future appears secure. Just what I need another geek toy on board.
I fried my Loran about 8 years ago and never replaced it.
I didn't think there was very much, if any, Loran-C coverage in the Caribbean, but since I don't have a receiver I haven't been following changes in the system.
I did navigate with Loran-C on a friend's boat doing a couple of Annapolis-Bermuda races back in the 80s. We could hold a Loran position all the way to Bermuda. Then we turned the unit off until departure. On the sails back to the states we never got a position lock until within 200 nm of the Chesapeake. With good software the Loran would provide a fairly accurate position even when it was receiving only chains that intersect at very acute angles. In order to acquire a fix it appeared to need solid signals from at least two orthogonal chains. Still we thought it was magic. It was really neat to have the Loran show that we had caught the bottom of a cold water eddy and let it slingshot us toward Bermuda.
On the trips back I did get a chance to actually use my sextant in anger. The sextant and DR got us pretty to close to where the Loran finally locked in.John
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,If you mean, will it turn on in the West Indies, yes. Will it tell you where you are? Probably not. But here's the thing – Loran is being extended with Loran “E” that in conjunction with GPS will not only tell you where you are within a skeenteenth of an inch, but will tell you what direction you are heading when stopped (as in a slip). It's a terrific idea and provides backup for when all of the GPS satellites fall out of the sky.
Bob
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:HA! I actually have one on Silver Heels. It came with the boat and it works perfectly, so I've left it in place as (as you say) yet another a back up. I don't think Loran works offshore or in the West Indies, does it?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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On the general subject of geek-sailing (I'm guilty – 5 computers on board), Evans Starzinger had an interesting comment in a recent SSCA Forum thread on a related subject (Cruiser Self-Reliance). He observed that when they made their first circumnavigation back in the 80s they got their weather forecasts before departure and then did as Tor suggested, made their own forecasts by looking at the sky and sea. He noted that he really enjoyed the days they were on a comfortable reach and wasn't thinking about what might happen in a few days. They just took the weather as it came. Now they cruise with the ability to download weather data continuously and he doesn't relax as much on those reaching days. He's always looking at or thinkng about the weather data for the next few days. Of course they now sail mostly in the high latitudes (southern oceans) so maybe it is well that he doesn't relax that much.
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hey, I know GPS is the way to go now that it's here (although mariners got around the Northeast for a long time without it, relying on other skills). I just lament the extreme electronics that collectively seem to sever a fragile bond between a sailor and his/her environment. Of course, for someone like Patrick, a self-proclaimed geek who loves the stuff, it enhances the fun of boating and I'm all for it. That is, after all, the whole point of doing this – to have fun. I just tend to enjoy my sailing a bit more au naturale. Different strokes.
My upcoming trip is Beaufort, NC to Martinique, by way of Bermuda if the wind favors it, with the initial West Indies landfall in St. Maarten. I'm looking at a late start, though – mid/late November – so if you're heading down the East Coast we might get together for a few beers in Beaufort. However, I'll be away October 6-25.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I keep trying to go old-school myself. Before both of my trans-atlantic sails I got the sextant out calibrated it and practiced a few times with an artificial horizon. I even wrote an Excel application to reduce the sights without a Nautical Almanac or reduction tables. Yet I never took one sight on either trip. Each day there was always enough things to do (fixing things, cooking, radio nets, cleaning, sleeping, etc.) such that when it came to navigation I just wouldn't give up the time to use the sextant to acquire a position that would never be as accurate as the one I was staring at on the GPS display. Maybe next time.
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:So true, so true. Where is your big trip to? I sure hope to meet! So, the anchorages would be empty, but the reefs littered with foundered yachts! Hmm, now that I think about it… I'm also a traditionalist although celestial navigation in the Northeast is not a very good way to survive. You can be off by more than the distance it takes to run aground.Bob
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:How true! I'm having to re-learn the steps now, I'm embarrassed to say. I navigated by sextant (and DR and RDF)) for years back in the day when that's all there was offshore, on a score of long passages. Now it's all a bit foggy from non-use. Just now ordering a nautical almanac for the sight reduction tables and have promised myself regular sights during my upcoming trip. There always was something especially gratifying about making a landfall after 10 days of fixes by the stars & planets. It still seems to me a part of the romance of sailing that drew me to it in the first place, just as is data-gathering from the elements around me rather than from a screen. I mean, if I'd wanted to watch all this on TV I could've just stayed home and kept warm and dry.
I know I'm the oddball today. Old fashioned ain't hardly in it. But without GPS imagine how beautifully uncluttered the anchorages would be in the far-off islands!
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Patrick,
You are certainly going to have the most hi-tech 424 in the fleet.Your plan indicates putting the GPS at the mizzen masthead. I don't believe this is a good idea. I tried to put my GPS antenna as close to the center of motion as possible. It's good to get it out from under cover, but today's unit are so sensitive (IMO) that is not really necessary. My GPS sits on the stern rail and the sky is partially blocked by the Bimini, still it has no trouble getting strong signals from all available satellites. I sometimes run my Garmin hand held under the Dodger, again with no perceived reduction in performance.
The reason for not putting the antenna high off the deck is because of the motion in a rolling sea could be sensed as actual boat motion. Since I know of no one who has put their GPS on a masthead, I have no evidence that in fact happens. You may have received input from others that this is not a problem. Still if the reason you are putting the GPS at the masthead is to give it a clear view of the sky, it is probably is not worth the effort even if there is no impact on the position sensing.On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Couple of links:
Panbo reviewed by NMEA network design which was a very rough 1st draft:
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/09/sharing_n2kbuilder_files_for_the_common_good.html
I posted my general plan for my big winter push refit
http://www.deepplaya.com/post/Let-the-Refit-Begin.aspx
If anyone has any suggest or comments to offer feel free to chime-in via the comments or email.
-p
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Quent,
I'm sure there is a lot of what you say in the Foley reputation. I have not dealt with directly with them myself, but I have heard a fairly consistent set of experiences from others who own Perkins engines. Getting hung up on when questioning the information provided on part order seemed to be on of the common experiences. Such as asking, “That part number is not the same as in my parts manual, has it been superceded?” with a reponse, “You want the part or not?” – CLICK!
Some reputations are earned.On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 7:59 PM, quent wrote:
Hi John-
I've heard the Foley stories, too. Never had any dealings with them, so I really don't have an opinion. Their website is pretty useful.
Most of the engine guys I deal with in Annapolis and on the Web are helpful and professional, but are bad mouthed by someone unhappy with them. I guess some of it goes with the territory.
Maybe my expectations are too low. In prior life, had to deal with lawyers and politicians.
Q—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Quent,
I was really impressed that Foley Marine actually wants to help their customers. I guess the A-hole who usually answered their phone must have died. I'm sure that answered the fervent prayers of many Perkins owners.John
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 4:16 PM, quent wrote:
Hi John-
Thanks. Cut and paste failure. I was looking at #10.
Q—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Quent,
Not sure what is wrong with the link you provided, but this one gets there for me:http://www.foleyengines.com/FreeTechnicalInfo.aspx
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:32 AM, quent wrote:
Here's an interesting link regarding engine smoke:
http://www.foleyengines.com/FreeTechnicalInfo/DrDieselShopKinks/EngineDiagnosticsForDummies.aspxs an interesting link on engine smoke:—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Here is picture of the vent in Sarah's forward cabin.
John
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
My vent to the main saloon is 6″
My vents fwd and aft are 4″
Yes it was very tight getting through the bulk head into the V berth.
I have carbon monoxide detectors in the V Berth and aft cabin and have never had a problem with them going off when the AC was in use.
In Virginia, on the southern Chesapeake Bay, the 16,000 btu Mermaid has performed well. On a day where the temp is 98+ it cannot keep the cabin temp in the low 70s… it will however keep the humidity low and even though the cabin temp is upper 70s it still feels great.
I think our size boat probably needs 20,000 btu but or so to keep them really cool.
I think the Mermaid is a good value (I also installed one in our last boat, and ODay 34) and the mfg has given good advice and support when requested.
Our marina electrics couldn't support a larger unit if I wanted to get more AC.Rick
EclipseOn 9/7/09, Adam < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Yes I am running into the same problem as Joe. The entryway through the bulkhead into the V berth is very tight. It looks like I will have to bring the cushion outward to make room for this vent. How do John's and Rick's boats deal with this? Is the vent 4″ going forward and 6 ” going to aft cabin.
Also I have the Mermaid unit and it made the CO detector go off in the middle of the night. On the second night it did it again with 3 ports open.
Thanks for the advice
Adam
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Sorry, Rick not Rich
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:38 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rich,
If (when) my OceanAir unit fails I intend to replace it with a similar from Mermaid. Has that A/C worked well for you?On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
My heat pump installation is similar to Johns. I bought a Mermaid from Defender.
I have a large vent coming out of the locker immediately aft of the hanging locker door for the main cabin, a vent that leads to the head, one that leads forward to the v berth (like John's) and another that leads aft to the Nav station (like John's).
Rick
Eclipse
On 9/3/09, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:Adam,
I inherited an A/C similar to the one you've just installed in the handing locker. The PO ran a 3″ vent to the forward cabin, down the lockers behind the starboard settee backs. It exits through a smal vent on the port side of the forward berth. He also ran a vent to the aft cabin (through the locker behind the head sink and outboard of the shower liner to another vent on the navigation desk.The A/C works well for the forward cabin and pulls the temp down to the low to mid 70s on the hottest days. The aft cabin vent doesn't do much. The problem is most likely in the duct work to which the A/C output is connected. When and if I replace the existing A/C I'll try to learn a little bit about ducting and maybe improve the aft cabin situation.
Two problems with this arrangement.
1. The vent hose takes up a lot of space in the lockers behind the settee backs.
2. Condensation can produce a fair amount of moisture in those lockers.Neither problem is very serious. I certainly am glad to have the A/C for the last 6 weeks in New Bern. It has been cool for 3 or 4 days now, but we had a month and a half where the high temp just about never got below the mid 90s.
John
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Adam < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I just installed a new 16,000 btu a/c unit in the starboard hanging locker in front of the head. The boat only had one outlet installed just above. I was wanting to add more vents, especially to the V berth and wanted to know who has done this, where they put the vents, and any problems to consider. It sure is great to have A/C in the south!
Thanks, Adam
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Rich,
If (when) my OceanAir unit fails I intend to replace it with a similar from Mermaid. Has that A/C worked well for you?On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
My heat pump installation is similar to Johns. I bought a Mermaid from Defender.
I have a large vent coming out of the locker immediately aft of the hanging locker door for the main cabin, a vent that leads to the head, one that leads forward to the v berth (like John's) and another that leads aft to the Nav station (like John's).
Rick
Eclipse
On 9/3/09, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:Adam,
I inherited an A/C similar to the one you've just installed in the handing locker. The PO ran a 3″ vent to the forward cabin, down the lockers behind the starboard settee backs. It exits through a smal vent on the port side of the forward berth. He also ran a vent to the aft cabin (through the locker behind the head sink and outboard of the shower liner to another vent on the navigation desk.The A/C works well for the forward cabin and pulls the temp down to the low to mid 70s on the hottest days. The aft cabin vent doesn't do much. The problem is most likely in the duct work to which the A/C output is connected. When and if I replace the existing A/C I'll try to learn a little bit about ducting and maybe improve the aft cabin situation.
Two problems with this arrangement.
1. The vent hose takes up a lot of space in the lockers behind the settee backs.
2. Condensation can produce a fair amount of moisture in those lockers.Neither problem is very serious. I certainly am glad to have the A/C for the last 6 weeks in New Bern. It has been cool for 3 or 4 days now, but we had a month and a half where the high temp just about never got below the mid 90s.
John
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Adam < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I just installed a new 16,000 btu a/c unit in the starboard hanging locker in front of the head. The boat only had one outlet installed just above. I was wanting to add more vents, especially to the V berth and wanted to know who has done this, where they put the vents, and any problems to consider. It sure is great to have A/C in the south!
Thanks, Adam
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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