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Hi Tor,
That's a nice job, man!
I didn't know Groco made the garboard plug. I do know they have a good reputation and their metals are what they say they are.
I'm not sure how Perko stays in the market since most of their stuff is chromed zinc alloy, otherwise known as pot metal. Their stuff corrodes, electrolysizes (if that's a word, which my spell checker assures me it isn't) and generally breaks very easily.
I won't buy a Perko anything for fear of catastrophic failure at the worst possible time. Hell, I'll go to Home Depot for something before I get a Perko thing, or use a bit of twine and chewing gum…
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
The other thing, John, is that salt down below should be avoided as much as possible – it holds moisture and keeps things damp. I'm also not crazy about dragging sand all over the boat. But as you said, different things for different owners.
Bob
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
Still sounds to me like a solution looking for a problem, but then again that's why we don't all have the same onboard equipment.John
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I'm sorry, John, but the luxury of a freshwater shower in the cockpit wherein you can wash yourself, the seats, your dive gear and if you are so inclined, your significant other is just too much to relegate to the shower…
Bob
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Or…. use the shower stall, that's what it's there for. So you track a little water from the companionway to the head – it is a boat. Use the washdown to clean off any sand or dirt.
John
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Tor,
You are totally correct – the loss of head is proportional to the length of pipe. It is, indeed, like resistance in a wire. But with 3/4″ hose or 5/8″ hose over about 25 feet the loss isn't that great, or not great enough to make a difference for what we're doing, at least that's my seat-of-the-pants theory. 3.5 gpm isn't a lot of flow.
James, I'm not sure why you'd want to run up to the bow to rinse off and I'd really be hesitant to cross connect salt and fresh water as Murphy rules in this arena. Why not install a shower in the cockpit attached to the cold and hot water in the area of the water heater. I've put one in and I can send pictures for it, if you'd like. I love the cockpit shower!
It took me about 2 hours to install.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
The other thing, John, is that salt down below should be avoided as much as possible – it holds moisture and keeps things damp. I'm also not crazy about dragging sand all over the boat. But as you said, different things for different owners.
Bob
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
Still sounds to me like a solution looking for a problem, but then again that's why we don't all have the same onboard equipment.John
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I'm sorry, John, but the luxury of a freshwater shower in the cockpit wherein you can wash yourself, the seats, your dive gear and if you are so inclined, your significant other is just too much to relegate to the shower…
Bob
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Or…. use the shower stall, that's what it's there for. So you track a little water from the companionway to the head – it is a boat. Use the washdown to clean off any sand or dirt.
John
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Tor,
You are totally correct – the loss of head is proportional to the length of pipe. It is, indeed, like resistance in a wire. But with 3/4″ hose or 5/8″ hose over about 25 feet the loss isn't that great, or not great enough to make a difference for what we're doing, at least that's my seat-of-the-pants theory. 3.5 gpm isn't a lot of flow.
James, I'm not sure why you'd want to run up to the bow to rinse off and I'd really be hesitant to cross connect salt and fresh water as Murphy rules in this arena. Why not install a shower in the cockpit attached to the cold and hot water in the area of the water heater. I've put one in and I can send pictures for it, if you'd like. I love the cockpit shower!
It took me about 2 hours to install.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
I'm sorry, John, but the luxury of a freshwater shower in the cockpit wherein you can wash yourself, the seats, your dive gear and if you are so inclined, your significant other is just too much to relegate to the shower…
Bob
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 10:54 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Or…. use the shower stall, that's what it's there for. So you track a little water from the companionway to the head – it is a boat. Use the washdown to clean off any sand or dirt.
John
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Tor,
You are totally correct – the loss of head is proportional to the length of pipe. It is, indeed, like resistance in a wire. But with 3/4″ hose or 5/8″ hose over about 25 feet the loss isn't that great, or not great enough to make a difference for what we're doing, at least that's my seat-of-the-pants theory. 3.5 gpm isn't a lot of flow.
James, I'm not sure why you'd want to run up to the bow to rinse off and I'd really be hesitant to cross connect salt and fresh water as Murphy rules in this arena. Why not install a shower in the cockpit attached to the cold and hot water in the area of the water heater. I've put one in and I can send pictures for it, if you'd like. I love the cockpit shower!
It took me about 2 hours to install.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
You are totally correct – the loss of head is proportional to the length of pipe. It is, indeed, like resistance in a wire. But with 3/4″ hose or 5/8″ hose over about 25 feet the loss isn't that great, or not great enough to make a difference for what we're doing, at least that's my seat-of-the-pants theory. 3.5 gpm isn't a lot of flow.
James, I'm not sure why you'd want to run up to the bow to rinse off and I'd really be hesitant to cross connect salt and fresh water as Murphy rules in this arena. Why not install a shower in the cockpit attached to the cold and hot water in the area of the water heater. I've put one in and I can send pictures for it, if you'd like. I love the cockpit shower!
It took me about 2 hours to install.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi – In an effort to keep all my pumps in the same place, I installed the washdown pump (Shurflow 3.5 gpm with integral pressure switch) under the galley sink. I ran the hose up through the bilge over the forward tank into the anchor chain locker and up to a fitting placed just next to the hausepipe for my chain rode. The supply comes from my manifold connected to the thru-hull that supplies the galley sink, the head, the washdown pump and soon the watermaker. There is an extra valve there for connecting an air supply for winterizing the system or for prolonged storage.
I used 5/8″ hose. I used the West Marine deck fitting. I can't wait to get the anchor dirty…..
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Perfect! The best time to apply said treatments!
2009/4/9 Silver Heels < ([email][/email])>
Quote:Understood. I'm looking for longevity, hoping to go as long as possible between haul-outs. Bob's grease trick may provide that by allowing repeated applications underwater. Or perhaps it's possible to do both, starting out with a spray-on paint and then applying lithium or one of the other lubricants when the paint starts losing its effectiveness. My prop is being re-pitched today and will come back professionally polished, a good time to spray it.
Thanks for the feedback.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich,
Jesus, I hope it wasn't Pelican! As far as I know and can tell, she's never sunk. There's nothing I can see to indicate it. But plastic thru-hulls are a no-no as far as I'm concerned even without valves. They're just to susceptible to damage…
The incremental cost of bronze over plastic is not that great in the scheme of things, to my opinion. As I told Alan, though, each takes his/her own risks and measures it against their experience. From that standpoint there is no right or wrong way to do something. I always tend to over engineer things, building for the eons. Like I'll be around for it…
Bob
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
One owner had his boat sink on a reef a few years back. He blamed the failure on the plastic fittings and replaced them all with bronze. Apparnetly, at least one of the plastic through-hulls ground off when rubbing on the coral and caused the boat to flood. Was it Pelican?
I've replaced a few of mine over the years, but went with plastic.
Regards
Rich—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Alan,
I know that I'd replace the plastic thru-hulls. Whether I'd put new valves on would depend on what you plan to do and when you plan to do it. If you're cruising during the summer, you're near land or near services and you've full confidence in the hoses, clamps, and deck fittings you don't need them. It's a case of what you feel comfortable with – not ABYC, although they tend to be conservative.
The thing of it is is that the sea doesn't forgive. This is the rule of thumb. True, the fittings and hoses are capable of withstanding probably 100+ times the forces encountered during their normal use and that's the real issue.
Certainly 30 years is a long time and you'd be fine either way. If you break the thru-hull it won't matter if there's a valve or not, frankly.
So, in my humble opinion which I, personally, hold in pretty fair regard, this is entirely up to you. Your boat will be level far more than it will be heeled and as long as you keep an eye on corrosion, you'd be good to go. None of those thru-hulls are anywhere you could step on them so I think you'd be hard pressed to break them that way.
Pelican came with all the valves and new hoses. I probably would not have added valves if they weren't already there. If there are any plastic thru-hulls, I would (will) replace them with bronze.
That said, I would install Marelon valves if I were to put or replace valves.
Either way, you'll probably be fine. I know only my last two (this and the prior) had valves on the deck drains.
Bob
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:The question I am wrestling with, according to ABYC standards, anything below the water line at max heel, needs a proper sea cock. Now, for 30 plus years these plastic fittings have been there with no sea cock and have done just fine. I am trying to justify the cost of 3 new 1 1/2″ sea cocks and hasle of putting them in, backing pads and all.
Just do it and shut up?
alan— On Wed, 4/8/09, Alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Oddly, I've never reapplied it as I generally dive the prop every couple of weeks since I'm in the water anyway to clean the waterline…
Bob
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:And then you re-apply it underwater?
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Couple of months, anyway, depending on use…
On 4/8/09, Silver Heels <> wrote:
Quote:Bob,Magic, definitely. How long does lithium grease remain effective on the
prop?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
I don't know why they stick either except to say that the lubricants are designed to 'bond' with metal so they can perform their lubrication duties. Or, it could be magic.
Bob
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I thought copper would set up an electrolytic current with bronze. Glad to hear I was mistaken. (And that explains why painted seacock flanges survive as well as they do with bottom paint on them.) In the past I've generally done as John does, i.e., leave the drive train plain and dive on it once in a while.
Bob, I am amazed that those products you listed will stick to a prop for long. I think I'll try your system: bottom paint on the strut & shaft, and lithium grease on the prop. Thanks!
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
My engine manual says you need to hold the glow plug for up to 50 seconds before pushing the start button. I usually go for about 15-20 seconds.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:
That's what I thought when I burned out my glow plugs. Apparently some, like mine, are not wired that way. (and it is easy to change)
Pete
Robert Fine wrote:
On the W58, you can't start the motor if the glow plug button isn't pushed – it provides power to both the starting button and the glow plugs…
Bob
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])
1- release the glow plug button before hitting the starter button
and you will have more current available.
2- don't go crazy on glow plug time. it is easy to burn out your
glow plugs (as me how I know). 5 Mississippi should be plenty.Patrick Walters wrote:
I've been holding off on asking this question hoping to do
some more troubleshooting myself but I figured I'll throw it
out and see what you all think.
After sitting at the dock for a while (daysmonths) the engine
does not start.
Starting procedure:
Turn on the key (listen to annoying bell)
Hold down Glwo POlug for 15 seconds
Push Start
I get a single click from the area of the starter and nothing.
I can then go down with a screw driver and start the engine by
connecting the starter switch post to the + terminal.
I think that is telling me I have a bad starter switch or
wiring tofromin the switch to the solenoid.
Now to screw all that up, after running the motor for a bit
the engine starts up just fine which makes me think its my
batteries not giving enough umph, but if that's the case why
can I start the engine with the screwdriver bypass?
Prior to starting, the battery test in the nav station reports
>12v. The engine gauge is in the yellow I think that is right
at or under 12v when the key is on.
I checked the SG on a couple of batteries this weekend and
they looked full and measured fine.
I actually think it’s the batteries, because I am pretty sure
I've been a batter caretaker, but this isn't adding up for me.
Any thoughts?
-patrick
P.s. I did get the boat off the dock and go sailing this
weekend though… it was great. Winking smile emoticon
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8
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s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Of course that works, too. I just purchased a wetsuit for cleaning mine in 40-65 degree water…
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:50 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I haven't painted a prop since they took the tin-based paints off the market. For a while you good get Tri-Lux in small cans, then it became Tri-Lux II and was worthless.
Since then I just clean the prop to a bright finish and then dive on it every few months with a scraper.On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Tor,
Copper based paint and bronze are no problem at all. Copper and aluminum is, however, extremely corrosive. Bronze, after all, is an alloy of copper, tin, and other metals for different uses. But primarily, copper and tin. So, paint away with no worries. (Brass is copper and zinc, a very different and very useless underwater alloy).
For the strut, I paint with bottom paint. If the shaft is bronze (mine's stainless or monel) you could paint it everywhere except where the zincs will go. That must be clean.
For the prop, you could paint it but the paint will wear off in no time unless you use a hard, non-ablative paint. Here's what I do:
1. Clean and smooth the prop – not polish, but pretty smooth
2. Using something like lithium grease or STP (yup, the oil that fixes everything in engines), wipe on liberally. Give it all a good coat. Rub it in.
3. You're done. For some reason sea life doesn't like either of these greases. I think molybdenum sulfide grease will work, too. But the oil/grease gets in the pores of the metal and really hangs in there. I may try teflon grease for speed, though, and it can be applied later in the season in the water.You could also use the zinc propeller and shaft paint in the spray can to coat these things as well. It does work but doesn't last the season.
Bob
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Once again I am in search of knowledge, if not wisdom. What seems to be the most effective antifouling system
on the bronze shaft, strut & prop? Anyone?If copper-based paints are so destructive on bronze underwater, why do painted seacock flanges survive as well
as they do?I'm thinking of painting Silver Heels' underwater bronze with West System epoxy as a barrier, then using
ordinary copper-based antifouling over that. Good idea? Bad idea? In the vernacular of the New York Yacht
Club, wassup?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
Copper based paint and bronze are no problem at all. Copper and aluminum is, however, extremely corrosive. Bronze, after all, is an alloy of copper, tin, and other metals for different uses. But primarily, copper and tin. So, paint away with no worries. (Brass is copper and zinc, a very different and very useless underwater alloy).
For the strut, I paint with bottom paint. If the shaft is bronze (mine's stainless or monel) you could paint it everywhere except where the zincs will go. That must be clean.
For the prop, you could paint it but the paint will wear off in no time unless you use a hard, non-ablative paint. Here's what I do:
1. Clean and smooth the prop – not polish, but pretty smooth
2. Using something like lithium grease or STP (yup, the oil that fixes everything in engines), wipe on liberally. Give it all a good coat. Rub it in.
3. You're done. For some reason sea life doesn't like either of these greases. I think molybdenum sulfide grease will work, too. But the oil/grease gets in the pores of the metal and really hangs in there. I may try teflon grease for speed, though, and it can be applied later in the season in the water.You could also use the zinc propeller and shaft paint in the spray can to coat these things as well. It does work but doesn't last the season.
Bob
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Once again I am in search of knowledge, if not wisdom. What seems to be the most effective antifouling system
on the bronze shaft, strut & prop? Anyone?If copper-based paints are so destructive on bronze underwater, why do painted seacock flanges survive as well
as they do?I'm thinking of painting Silver Heels' underwater bronze with West System epoxy as a barrier, then using
ordinary copper-based antifouling over that. Good idea? Bad idea? In the vernacular of the New York Yacht
Club, wassup?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
