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How old is the main?
On May 4, 2010, at 12:10 PM, “E. Bradley Moynahan”
<> wrote:Quote:Dear 424’s,I have a few items for sale. The reason the sails are for sale is
that I
recently converted to Forespar Leisure Furl roller furl booms for my
main
and mizzen. My First Mate doesn’t like going out on the deck in a b
low
anymore and we want to keep sailing until we are over 80. Some
prices are
negotiable. Items are located in MA/CT area.1. Outboard Motor – HONDA 5 HP, 4-Stroke, 15â€
I am planning to overlay the entire sole with bamboo and teak (bamboo
for the wide strips and teak for the narrow/ 1/4
thick. This will be the last project of the refit. After I am done
making all the rest of the messes.Pete
On 5/2/2010 6:17 PM, Rich Carter wrote:
Quote:Pete
I assume you’ve probably seen this.
http://www.richardcarter.net/boat/sole/Unless you want to replace a large part of your cabin sole, you might find
it easier to use the plywood venere. Laying in solid strips isn’t all that
difficult however. Especially if you have an odd shape to fit. Its about
the same price as plywood.Rich
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Thanks Bob. Mine does look like a doug fir plywood but I thought it was
treated. Plain plywood 30 years ago was nicer than it is today. Many
fewer voids, etc. Yes I can get a sheet of 3/4″ exterior treated ply
for about $30. Makes sense since as you say it will not be directly or
constantly exposed to water.Pete
On 4/30/2010 7:23 AM, Robert Fine wrote:
The subfloor and beams are not marine grade. The beams are simple 2×3
douglas fir which is resistant to rot (clearly not if it’s submerged). The
subfloor is standard 3/4″ plywood, and for the same reason.Unless you plan to keep your bilge wet all the time up to the top of the
keel, I’d say, the stuff lasted 32+ years. Why mess with success.Another way to tell is that standard and marine grades of plywood are
different thicknesses – marine is about 1/64th inch thinner. Maybe a 32nd.
I forget which. If I were to recommend plywood replacement, I’d suggest
exterior grade. It’s only marginally more expensive than interior grade.At any rate, that’s what mine is, and it’s #8. I seriously doubt they
changed materials in later models, but who knows?I hope that helps and saves you a bit of money.
Bob
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I talked with them yesterday in fact. I can get a variety of marine
plywoods here in ft collins, but I was thinking that I needed to get a
CCA marine plywood. Still unclear about that.Pete
On 4/30/2010 12:41 AM, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:
This place is 1:20 away from Fort Collins in Aurora.
http://straitlumber.com/products/lumber-plywood.php<http://straitlumber.com/products/lumber-plywood.php>They carry andor they
are a dealer for this brand of Marine Grade Plywood:
http://www.wolstenholme.com/prod05.htm<http://www.wolstenholme.com/prod05.htm>-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Pete Dubler<> wrote:
I am in Fort Collins, Colorado. My boat is here for a several year
restoration. (It is a Blue Water Sailing project boat and you can follow
the project in their magazine starting this summer with an article on
trucking the boat out here).Pete
On 4/29/2010 7:04 PM, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:
Use Marine grade plywood….
Pete, where do you live? I might be able to help you find it.-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Pete Dubler<>
wrote:I need to buy some plywood to replace the big hole in the sole I made
glassing in the new fuel tank. The question is: what is this stuff?Is it CCA marine grade doug fir plywood or just CCA (non-marine) plywood,
or something else.What are people using these days? I can find CCA plywood (non-marine)
for
about $32/sheet and I can find marine grade, not CCA plywood for about
$97 a
sheet. In any case, I need about a 48 x 48 piece of the right stuff.
(the
CCA 3/4 marine ply sells at the coast for about $65/sheet, but I can’t
find
it here). I wonder if you can just put a shipping label on a 4′ square
piece and send it via UPS….Knowledge and ideas?
Thanks,
Pete
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I am in Fort Collins, Colorado. My boat is here for a several year
restoration. (It is a Blue Water Sailing project boat and you can
follow the project in their magazine starting this summer with an
article on trucking the boat out here).Pete
On 4/29/2010 7:04 PM, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:
Use Marine grade plywood….
Pete, where do you live? I might be able to help you find it.-p
—
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Pete Dubler<> wrote:
I need to buy some plywood to replace the big hole in the sole I made
glassing in the new fuel tank. The question is: what is this stuff?Is it CCA marine grade doug fir plywood or just CCA (non-marine) plywood,
or something else.What are people using these days? I can find CCA plywood (non-marine) for
about $32/sheet and I can find marine grade, not CCA plywood for about $97 a
sheet. In any case, I need about a 48 x 48 piece of the right stuff. (the
CCA 3/4 marine ply sells at the coast for about $65/sheet, but I can’t find
it here). I wonder if you can just put a shipping label on a 4′ square
piece and send it via UPS….Knowledge and ideas?
Thanks,
Pete
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Go John go!
On 4/29/2010 5:55 PM, John Sommer wrote:
Hello,
We are planning our cruising plans for 2010 and 2011. I have given my notice at work, we are renting our house, and will be moving aboard on July 1st. 15 Years in the planning and the moment is almost upon us….
We’ll be sailing down east coast late summer/early fall an hooking up with the Caribbean 1500 to Tortola. We’ll spend the winter cruising the islands and work our way back to New England in the Spring.
I am so pleased to be part of this 424 community and all the support/advise I have received over the years. It is one of the things that makes owning a 424 so special…there are so many people actively cruising 424’s and willing to share their knowledge. Thank you again for all the help in making my dream come true.
John Sommer
Indulgence #179
Portland, ME
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John,
Many thanks for sharing this and for posting the picture. One more
thing I will check on my boat.Pete
On 4/29/2010 2:06 PM, John Stevenson wrote:
Just got an email from Jack Tyler on Whoosh. He had a little scare
yesterday when he started feeling a lot of vibration in the aft end of the
cockpit. Fearing a problem with the rudder he emptied the port cockpit
locker and climbed in to investigate. Turns out the vibration was caused by
a log of salt encrustation on his SailOMat vane steerer, but down there he
discovered a plastic bushing on the rudder post that appears to be intended
as a bearing surface where the rudder post goes through the wooden brace
just above the stuffing box. Jack discovered the bushing had ridden up the
post and was no longer providing a bearing surface for the post. With the
bushing out of the wooden brace there was some slight movement of the rudder
post. He was able to push the bushing back down into the wood and then put
a hose clamp around the rudder post to hold it in place.When i got his email I stuck my head down in the lazarette and son of gun I
have the same issue. I posted a picture of the bushing at
http://drop.io/pearson424, called PlasticBushing.jpg. Notice the o-ring on
the bushing. This must be a fitting intended for a different purpose, but
used by Pearson because they had them available and they fit the rudder
post.I can’t get any pressure on this bushing from the lazarette so I’ll probably
have to go through the port locker as Jack did.Anyone else notice this issue on their boat?
I’ve had to tighten my rudder post stuffing box every couple of years. I’m
suspicious the slight movement in the rudder post with the bushing out of
the wood might have caused the stuffing box to loosen.This also brings to mind the rudder post is one of the most inaccessible
devices on the boat and a lot of us only deal with it when a problem
surfaces (like vibration or a leaking stuffing box). Anyone made any
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Ahh, of course… split it before the injection elbow…. I was, for
some reason, thinking you meant to split it after that, which I did not
understand.Speaking of all this, what are folks using for lift mufflers these
days? The Vernalift 2″ in/out units are all rated at 25HP max. That
seems strange since my new 50HP and my old 58HP both have 2″ exhaust.On 4/29/2010 8:39 AM, wrote:
Peter
According to the Westerbeke manual for the W60, where the raw water leaves the cooling jacket you run it through a ‘Y’ pipe and divert part of the flow overboard. Pearson didn’t do this. The W-60 had to literally pump like a fire-engine hose to keep the engine cool. I guess it worked OK the way Pearson installed the engine because the W-60 proved to be a very reliable engine. It also made hot water faster than I could use it, something I sorely miss with my new Yanmar. At idle, the 6-gal water tank would heat after about 30 minutes. If I left the engine running, we’d never run out of hot water._______________________________________________
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The single wire antenna I described runs outside of the mainsail
triangle and does not interfere with the mizzen, so it is not in the way.Also have a hoistable folded dipole on board for my second ham radio,
and ICOM IC-735, which is a great radio for voice work. This foldable
is good when at anchor. The ends go fore and aft and the center is
hoisted to the head of the main mast. Coax goes up to the center of the
antenna.Pete
On 4/29/2010 1:02 PM, wrote:
Quote:Pete,
I considered this when I replaced my whip antenna last year. I wanted something that wouldn’t get in the way though. Having another wire running from the masthead to deck is just something else to get in the way.Another antenna that my brother-in-law recommends is a dipole with one end hoisted up to the masthead and the other end dragged in the water with a half-empty beverage bottle as a weight (not to be confused with a Beverage antenna). This only works when you’re under way, but provides a decent length antenna so it tunes up on the lower bands. No grounds in the bilge are needed either.
Rich
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I have never been able to understand why folks use their stays as
antennas considering how expensive the insulators are and how they
create a point of failure.A simple solution I learned from my PO is a length of insulated wire
(like clothes line) run from the top of the main mast down to near one
of the mizzen chain plates. A cheap insulator on each end and a bit of
bungee cord on the bottom end completes the kit. Both ends have loops
with crimped fasteners. A ring terminal on the end of the wire connects
to the feed from the antenna tuner and the connection, made with a
stainless bolt is covered with self sealing coax tape. (
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/COS-1/COAX-SEAL//1.html )It is cheap enough that you can have two… one on each side. (does
not solve the loss of rig problem though, but eliminates one cause: the
insulators)Pete
On 4/29/2010 7:45 AM, wrote:
Quote:You can omit the insulator at the bottom end of your backstay if you remove the ground. This is dangerous however. Voltages that might appear on the rig at various frequencies can be very high. If someone accidentally touched the backstay while transmitting, it could be fatal. I don’t recommend this approach. In fact, you could omit the top insulator too and create a shunt-fed antenna but this is very difficult to tune over a wide band.Using the existing bonding system (green ground wires that run between through-hulls) is inadequate. There is no reason that you can’t use this to augment a proper RF ground system. I’m not sure that this is really a counterpoise, but its close enough if we all know what we mean. A counterpoise is normally a set of elevated radials found at the bottom of a vertical antenna. A bunch of copper foil run through the bilge would technically be a counterpoise, but a bronze plate attached to the side of the hull technically isn’t. I have a combination of both.
“An antenna counterpoise is a structure of conductive material most closely associated with ground that may be insulated from or capacitively coupled to the natural ground. It aids in the function of the natural ground, particularly where variations (or limitations) of the characteristics of the natural ground interfere with its proper function. Such structures are usually connected to the terminal of a receiver or source opposite to the antenna terminal.”
Have you folks considered what you’ll do for an antenna if you lose your rig? A lost rig is one of the scenarios under which a sailboat would likely need assistance, but without a rig, most boats lack an antenna.
here’s a possible solution among many.
http://www.buddipole.com/buddistick.htmlA kite with a length of wire is also an option.
Rich
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I found the lead… My boat has the copper strip grounding system. It
is tied to the lead by two lag bolts just forward of the deep bilge
(sump) on what I like to call the bilge step.Pete
On 4/28/2010 3:32 PM, Patrick “Peaboy” Walters wrote:
Quote:I’ll outline my plan of attack as a source of more info. I’ll share how
things were when I bought the boat and my plans.*When I bought the boat*
The Antenna tuner ground was attached to the bonding system via the port
cockpit drain through hull.The Antenna lead wire was attached to the port backstay chainplate. This
chainplate was detached from the bonding system. There were no isolators in
the back stay and the starboard leg was attached to the bonding system. The
PO says the thing worked great. I never heard anything on this setup.*My Plan Moving Forward*
I plan to hook the antenna tuner ground to the bonding system.My new backstay has isolators in the upper leg above the split in the
backstay. This will be fed with COAX. This is not exactly what I wanted.
What I wanted was to isolate one leg AND the upper section. My rigger was a
little pushy on that so I went with their judgement and experience. We’ll
see how that works out.If that does not get me a great signal, I plan to line the lazarettes with
copper mesh, glass it in and use that as the antenna ground. But I’m hoping
to not have to do that.-p
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s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 Hull #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.comOn Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Silver Heels<> wrote:
Quote:Rich,I have run copper strap from my automatic antenna tuner as a counterpoise
for my SSB/HAM installation. I’ve already connected the strap to 3 bronze
thru-hulls, as per Gordon West’s recommendation. Actually, he says 1 or 2
thru-hull connections are enough, and claims this is all that’s needed.
However, since I had plenty of copper strap handy I continued the run
forward through the upper bilge to the area of the mainmast step. Numerous
radio-wise folks, including some in this 424 group and also my pretty sharp
marine electrician neighbor, feel that connecting the strap to the lead keel
ballast, even though it is internal rather than external, will significantly
increase the power of the counterpoise. The connection is made via a lag
bolt passed through the strap, into and through the fiberglass covering the
ballast and into the lead.Personally, I pretend no knowledge of these esoteric mysteries. So when I
get 7 out of 10 seemingly knowledgeable opinions in agreement on a point of
procedure, I tend to follow that advice. I’m certain some of our 424 owners
have lagged their counterpoise strap into the lead ballast. I’m hoping one
of more of them will tell me where exactly they drilled and how far through
the fiberglass they had to go to reach the lead.Tor
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No costs involved. I just need to borrow and fire-up the high-speed
scanner.Pete
On 4/28/2010 8:00 PM, kalinowski wrote:
I’d also like to chip in.
Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne II (#135)
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The stuck drill bit would make a good grounding rod…. ;^)
On 4/28/2010 1:27 PM, wrote:
Quote:I’m scratching my head over this. Why are you folks connecting to the lead ballast? Its not well grounded and there isn’t a whole lot of surface area. I’m not even sure its one piece. My guess is that Pearson tossed lead ingots and who knows what else down there and poured epoxy over the mess. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt, but wouldn’t copper foil in the bilge do more good?.My limited experience with drilling lead is that you have to be careful. If the drill-bit heats up it will melt the lead, making it difficult to extract the drill-bit.
Rich
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I thought the lead was under the main (deep) bilge, not under the mast foot.
On 4/28/2010 12:37 PM, Silver Heels wrote:
I am endeavoring to put a lag bolt into the lead ballast beneath the mainmast. I positioned my drill bit 2″
outboard of the middle of the mast’s port side and have now drilled down 3″, from whence the bit is pulling up
chalky white powder, not lead. I know some of you have lagged into the ballast in that area. Where did you
drill and how deep did you have to go?I’d have to scrounge up a longer drill bit (and a longer lag bolt) to continue where I am, but the hull is
curving sharply in just a few more inches outboard and I am wondering at what point the drill bit will simply
pop out through the hull into the water. I suppose that would make one hell of a good ground, but it isn’t
what I had in mind. Am I drilling in the wrong place?Tor
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Carbonates of lead, silicates of lead, and sulfates of lead can be a
chalky white substance…. Sea water + lead + time = ??On 4/28/2010 12:37 PM, Silver Heels wrote:
I am endeavoring to put a lag bolt into the lead ballast beneath the mainmast. I positioned my drill bit 2″
outboard of the middle of the mast’s port side and have now drilled down 3″, from whence the bit is pulling up
chalky white powder, not lead. I know some of you have lagged into the ballast in that area. Where did you
drill and how deep did you have to go?I’d have to scrounge up a longer drill bit (and a longer lag bolt) to continue where I am, but the hull is
curving sharply in just a few more inches outboard and I am wondering at what point the drill bit will simply
pop out through the hull into the water. I suppose that would make one hell of a good ground, but it isn’t
what I had in mind. Am I drilling in the wrong place?Tor
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