[skipmac]

Pete Dubler decided to go with the 50 Beta and said he’s totally satisfied with the power after launching and some real world use.

Appreciate the engine offer but I already have a whole spare W58. If you do decide to go off the deep end replace the whole package I will kindly volunteer to relieve you of the responsibility of storing that large, heavy, greasy transmission and V-drive.

Skip

@Steven Weinberg, Ph.D. wrote:

Just the engine. Had the v drive rebuilt by Walter several years ago. Going with a Beta Marine 50 or 60 HP. Using my current Borg Warner transmission.

S

Sent from my iPad

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[skipmac]

Hi Steven,

Are you replacing the transmission and V-drive as well or just the engine?

By the way, which new engine are going with?

Skip

@Steven Weinberg, Ph.D. wrote:

I am re-powering my 424 and I will be pulling my current W63C. I will be either selling the entire engine or will be selling parts to cover some of the costs of the new engine. The boat/engine is at a marina in San Diego. I have been told many parts are common with the W58, however, need to compare part lists. It has an all new top end including cylinder head, valves etc., new exhaust manifold, mixing elbow, and new oil cooler. Runs great, but I have had water in the oil problems that I have not been able to solve over the past six months. Since I live in CO and the boat is in CA, I cannot find the time to continue to diagnose the problem. If anyone is interested in parts or the engine, please let me know. It probably has less the 500 hrs on the engine.

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[skipmac]

You can get parts for most Groco strainers, even the very old ones. You can get the part number here http://www.groco.net/svc-main.htm but I would order the part from one of the online marine stores for a lot less than Groco direct.

[skipmac]

I’m thinking I should pull the injectors from my spare engine and have then tested and rebuilt as needed and add to my spares.

So never having had to replace an injector is there anything more than pulling the old one, inserting the new, torqueing down the bolts that hold it in, attach the fuel lines and go? Any special concerns?

[skipmac]

Regarding spares, I divide mine into two groups.

Group 1. The parts that fall into one or more of these categories.
– fail most commonly
– will leave you dead in the water
– I can replace with onboard tools or in a remote or third world location

Group 2. The expensive or hard to find parts that I would probably need a mechanic, shop or assistance to replace but still might get my engine back up and running short of a bottom end rebuld.

First group would be starter, water pump(s) or pump rebuild kits, fuel pump, alternator and the usual filters and such. Maybe include spare injectors and glow plugs.

Second group would be things like the injector pump, head and head gasket, valve train parts.

Group one parts I would carry with me if going far from home. Group two would probably store at home but have some way to get them sent to me if needed.

[skipmac]

Hi Rich,

Excellent comments on the repower vs dumping money into an old Westerbeke. I am of the same opinion. Still keeping my W58 going with minimal trouble and I did indeed find an old W58 that I bought for parts. Now have spare starter, spare fresh water pump, injector pump, injectors, glow plugs and even a head if it comes to that.

But bottom line, if the oil pressure starts going, rods knocking or anything that looks like anything more than minor repairs or replacing a few parts then I guess I’ll bite the bullet and go new. Like you I would also go with new V-drive and transmission. Just seems to make sense that if you’re going to tear the boat apart to replace the engine you may as well do the rest while you’re at it.

[skipmac]

Hi Dan,

Had heard that most Westerbekes were other engines painted red so did a little research and determined that the W58 is the same as a Perkins 4.154 series 200 engine. Those were common in tractors and industrial equipment where parts are MUCH cheaper.

Assuming your fresh water pump is the same as mine, it’s a two piece unit. The main pump body bolted to the block and a smaller insert that has the shaft and rotor. Unless the body is rusted out you can just remove the shaft section and replace. It was faster and cheaper for me than buying a rebuild kit.

The previous thread is here.

https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?t=2086&highlight=

I bought my pump on eBay from this company http://www.plowboyequipment.com/ Best deal I found anywhere and they were very helpful helping me identify the part.

Here’s a link to the original eBay ad with a picture of the part.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6599948-6630541-Bobcat-Skid-Steer-Loader-Water-Pump-843-/170902596727

[skipmac]

Thanks again to Craig for transporting the stove and to Adam for donating it. Heading out now to place it in its new home in the barn where the goodies will be lovingly removed for their new life.

If any other members need a specific part let me know. I’ll be happy to pull them and send for the cost of shipping Tor of course will get first call on the ones he needed but otherwise they are there.

[skipmac]

I pulled my shaft to replace the cutlass and it sure looked like it was pointed right at the skeg as it came aft.

Regarding the handling question. I have to confess that I have somewhat limited experience with the 422 in close quarters. I only owned it for 9 months before hauling it and trucking it home for the overhaul. In that time I only had to maneuver around in really tight quarters 3-4 times. The one that scared the beejeezus out of me was at the Charleston City Marina.

Came in to get fuel and was directed to the inside of the T dock. As I approached I realized there was a current behind me so had the bright idea to turn around so I could dock into the current. The turning room was limited by the fuel dock to port and additional docks to stbd and the finger pier leading out to the fuel dock dead ahead and down current.

So swung close to the stbd side docks, backed down some to pull the stern to stbd, hard over to port and gunned it. Had a bit over two boat lengths and didn’t come close to bringing the bow around. Was now sideways so backed down hard and tried again and still didn’t make it. Meanwhile a 2-3 kt current is taking me towards the dead end ahead where a 70′ sloop with a mirror finish paint job was tied up broadside to me. Came to a spot where there was a slight gap in the docks to stbd so backed the stern into the hole to give me a little more room ahead and floored it (do you say that with a boat?).

There I had a bit over 3 boat lengths and just barely got the bow around without hitting boat ahead on the T dock. In fact the tip of the bow sprit passed over the head of a woman varnishing the toe rail. The look on her face! Definitely wide eyed.

So maybe the current was a factor in making the turn but you can bet I waited for slack tide before we left the marina. In the weekend we stayed there I saw two pretty good fender benders just on our pier. Nice marina, highly recommended but do watch the tidal currents.

Meanwhile once I launch I plan to test out the handling a bit more to see if I can learn the tricks of the boat.

[skipmac]

@john stevenson wrote:

This works quite well as long as you want to turn to port. If you need to turn to starboard you’re SOL.

Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

Hi John,

I am familiar with the process and have tried it with the 422. My last boat I could turn port in her own length doing this and I’m disappointed I can’t do the same with the Pearson.

I have experimented a few times and get just a slight prop walk to stbd in reverse which I do use. What I don’t get is any kick to port (or stbd) in forward when I goose the engine with the helm hard over. Just about zero. I don’t see my bow swing around at all until I get some headway and water flow over the rudder. Basically have to get a running start to get the boat to turn. I wonder if this is a difference with the 422. I thought the prop was in the same spot as the 424 but it sounds like you can get a response that I can’t. I do have a three bladed fixed prop so it’s not an issue of limited thrust from a folder or two blade.

Also, I eyeballed my prop shaft, strut and cutlass and I can’t see the offset (to stbd?) I see mentioned for the 424. Mine shaft looks like it’s pointed straight at the leading edge of the skeg. Was that done on all the 424s or just the early or late models or something? Maybe I missed that feature. My hull was laid in 1983, boat launched 1984. Hull number 18 of 39 of the 422s but not sure where that would line up with the 424 hull numbers.

[skipmac]

@Tor wrote:

Lackluster maneuverability is a 424 trait. I believe it
is caused not by lack of power, but by the great
distance between the propeller and the rudder, the
primary cause of the sluggish, halfhearted response to
bursts of forward power at slow and no speed. It
doesn’t seem like more horsepower will do much to
improve it.

Tor

---

Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us

---

Hi Tor,

I agree that the prop/rudder relationship has a lot to do with it. Due to the distance and angle of the prop you can’t get the prop wash impact against the rudder to kick the stern around. I almost learned the hard way on my first trip that the Pearson basically will not maneuver until you have a bit of headway. Came pretty close to taking out the paint job on a gold plater in Charleston marina but managed to pull it out with at least 2′ to spare.

I was speculating that a bit more power and the ability to reach maneuvering speed in a shorter distance would help. That was my main thought behind considering more power but probably any improvement would be minimal.

I had wondered if I had lost my boat handling skills since I read a post somewhere about turning a 424 with reverse prop walk and short bursts in forward. Used to work quite well with my last boat but couldn’t seem to get it to work with this one. So in a strange way I’m glad to hear that it’s the boat and not me.

Now for the first time in my life I find myself thinking about bow thrusters, until I look at the costs. Plus I don’t like the idea of the turbulence that big hole in the bow would create.

[skipmac]

Hi Steve.

I believe Pete Dubler repowered his 424 with a Beta 50. Don’t remember off the top of my head all the reasons he stated for picking the 50 but the reprint of his article can be downloaded at this page http://www.betamarinenc.com/index.php/repower-centre/repower-articles.

I think one reason was for lower weight and he considered 50 hp adequate. A couple of times I have felt the W58 didn’t have quite the power I needed in a tight spot trying to maneuver in a strong current and would be tempted to go with the 60. But my W58 is 30 years old and may not be putting out as much as it did new so the 50 might be adequate.

[skipmac]

@dave jones wrote:

Skip,

We have the Westerbeke 58 and have the same setup that you do. A key
switch With off-on-start positions with the on position having a
momentary push to preheat feature. Ours is mounted on the aft bulkhead
just inside the companionway. I may have a spare but it would be on the
boat under three feet of snow right now. i believe Westerbeke still has
the switches available, but that would of course be at Westerbeke
prices. I doubt that the solenoid would draw more than an amp or so,
its not that large ,so the Cole Hersee switches would probably do fine.

Dave

Thanks Dave. If that switch was $300 instead of $30 I might ask you to get your snow shovel. But for $30 you’re safe.

I’m pretty sure the Cole Hersee will work but they seem to have a few options and their catalog isn’t exactly clear on the specs for some. I think the M 832 will do it.

[skipmac]

422 or 424, it’s all the same to us!

Thanks. Glad I can stay. :>)

Ok, if you have the standard Westerbeke engine panel with keyswitch, glow
plug button, and start button AND you have to hold the glow plug button as
well as the start button to start the engine then you only need the off and
on part of the starter switch. Nothing gets connected to the start
terminal. Behind the panel or near the engine there is a relay that powers
the glow plugs.

My panel only has the ignition switch. No separate button for the glow plugs. Just push in against a spring and hold. This sends power to a solenoid on the block.

As far as the alarm goes, you connect it in parallel to the idiot light.

Thanks. Another little item on the list.

I would say that if your current switch works and you have a direct
replacement the easiest thing to do is to replace it.

That’s what I’m thinking as well.

On the W58, the fuel solenoid is energized whenever the ignition switch is
on.

Bob 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[skipmac]

Hi Rich,

Yes the hulls are identical. I’ve carefully examined a few 424s at the yards to make sure. The 422 even has the same sump in the keel but it’s mostly filled with the water tank.

I have found a few significant differences in the mechanics. I think the 422 engine is set further forward since the tranny is bolted directly to the v-drive. If I’m not mistaken the 424 has a short drive shaft in there. The best part, the fuel tanks are under the settees in the main cabin and I was able to pull both of them out for cleaning. I’ve heard you have to pull the engine to get the tanks out of the 424.

Hailing port is Bristol RI but boat is currently parked in the woods for a pretty complete redo. Did like Pete Dubler and had my boat trucked closer to home for the job. Currently in the woods in north FL coincidentally about 5 miles from the Hunter boat plant.

Very familiar with PB Blaster. Must have 3-4 cans between the house and the boat but haven’t tried it on tools and rust removing. Thanks for the tip. Duck tape I buy by the mile. You forgot one essential repair tool, epoxy. If you can’t stick it together with duck tape then glue it. I’m a bit more sophisticated in my repair techniques. I also use pliers and hammers. I now have two sets of pliers. Had to get a new pair for metric nuts.

The problem with the switch isn’t sticking or bad contacts, it’s just worn out. The key is so loose in the slot it’s ready to fall out and it takes a bit of jiggling to get it to line up with the tumblers and turn. So time for the new key.

If you like old radios you might like the one on my desk. Not a collector’s item but is an old wood case Firestone that belonged to my grandmother. It must be at least 75 years old.

Best
Skip

@RichCarter wrote:

Skip,
No problem about the 422. I think the hulls come out of the same mold. What is your home port?

I’ve had very good success fixing bad switches using a secret switch cleaner that I discovered many years ago. It’s called PB-Blaster and can be purchased in almost any hardware store. Just spray a bit in the switch and let is sit for about 5 minutes. Then operate the switch a few times and presto, just like new! Try squirting a bit of PB-blaster in the ignition key-hole to see if that fixes your switch. There’s only one problem with this stuff. Some switches use a fiber board that absorbs oil and swells when exposed to PB-Blaster. Deoxit makes a better cleaner but is hard to find and very expensive. Deoxit isn’t oil based and won’t harm these switches. I think most modern stuff isn’t effected by the oil based cleaner. Switches prior to about 1975 might not like the stuff however. I restore old vacuum tube radios and use Deoxit on them.

I also use PB-Blaster on my wrenches and other various tools. It keeps them from rusting and removes whatever rust has accumulated. I spray a bit on and work it into whatever moving parts are in there. Then I wipe them down and put them back in the tool box. This is probably why I havn’t had any issues with the Gear Wrench Quad-Boxes I bragged about in an earlier message.

Don’t spray PB-Blaster on your winch or starter motor brushes. It’s flamable. It will clean the brushes pretty well, but might catch on fire (ask me how I know). At least the fire is small and easy to contain.

WD-40 is not very useful but is much more popular. I have no idea how they stay in business. The only use I can find for the stuff is spraying down my outboard motor engine during winter lay-up.

Between PB-Blaster and Duck-tape, there’s almost nothin I can’t fix 🙂

Hope this helps.
Rich

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