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Guy, I suspect it would be hard to find a sailor who doesn’t prefer reaching. Perhaps if you just day-sail with lots of alternate destinations available to choose from, or else sail around in open ocean with no particular destination, then you can reach all the time. What fun! My karma seems to be headwinds about 80% of the time – I’d swear they actually shift to blow from wherever I’m trying to go – except when I’m running down the trade winds, which is about the most fun thing in the world. I long ago accepted that my 424 is a motorsailer hard on the wind if I really need to get someplace.
Nice to encounter a sailor who knows something about using a mizzen sail. Few do. There’s a summary of mizzen techniques at http://www.tor.cc/articles/mizzen.htm . I should add your “docking brake” bit to it. Many years (yikes, decades!) ago I had a classic, engineless gaff-rigged ketch. I lived at anchor and only docked her rarely, but was told the former owner used to regularly back her into her slip using the mizzen sail to guide her in.
Tor
Hey Skip,
Email Ewan at info@pearson424.org and describe the problem you’re having. He’ll fix it or tell you what you need to do.
Tor
Thanks, Ken. That’s good feedback. Your taller sloop rig should, at least in theory, point a little better than a cutter, and a cutter better than a ketch, but of course there are so many other variables that it’s not necessarily a given. Sounds to me like you got all your boat had to give and did very well on that passage, for a P424 in those conditions.
I find that Silverheels, with her fairly new, fully battened sails and tuned rigging, tacks in 110 to 120 degrees, plus a good 5-degrees leeway either side, in moderate offshore conditions, i.e., 12-15 knots of wind and commensurately modest seas. If I need to point higher, then I consider her a motorsailer to windward. Running my 54HP Yanmar & fixed 3-blade prop at 1400 RPM gets the boat to point high and keep moving and burns just 0.6 GPH of diesel. In flat, protected conditions (which I seem to recall having once, back in 2011, or was it 2012?) I believe I can squeeze a tack into 100-degrees and still be sailing. Maybe.
So, from what I’m seeing in this thread, I’m pointing all right for the boat I have. I was just curious to see whether others were pointing higher. I’ve always thought a 90-degree tacking angle was “normal” or “average” for a “cruising sailboat, but I’ve also always known that everything on a boat is a trade-off. I’ve got a handsome liveaboard cruising sailboat with an easy rig to single-hand, roomy with comfortable accommodations, decent maneuverability, seaworthy, relatively stiff and seakindly, fast enough off the wind… Lots here to appreciate.
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Tom,
Theoretical hull speed for a Pearson 424 is about 7.8 knots, i.e., 1.34 X
(sq. root of) 33.75′. In reality 424’s often move faster through the water because the waterline lengthens as the boat squats and/or heels underway. It’s probably more like 8.3 knots in practice. In any case, hull speed it the rare treat, not the norm. Most of the time you’d have to crank up your engine RPM way too high to achieve it, so your fuel consumption would be very high, indeed. Better if you don’t plan on making hull speed and forget about an extra 2 knots. You bought a sailboat. Leave the engine off, kick back and enjoy it.Your question, as it is posed, defies a definitive answer because there are too many variables, beginning with what engine and prop the boat has, what the wind and sea conditions are, how clean the bottom is (or isn’t), how high you’re trying to point, and what’s the big rush anyway. The “whatever” answer, though, is 0.6 GPH to motorsail on average IF you’re habitually gentle on the throttle, 1 GPH if you’re not, and 1.5 to 2 GPH to cruise at hull speed. However, none of this applies to a 20-knot wind. You normally wouldn’t use an engine in 20 knots unless you’re angrily forcing the boat hard to windward, and if you do that beating into 20 knots on an offshore passage in a Pearson 424, sooner or later you’ll break something in the boat. Like the forepeak tabbing, or the book shelves, or the bulkheads.
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Oh, happy day! It appears one of my emails (the one that starts out to Rich) did eventually arrive and get posted. Maybe my next one, presently in the pipeline, will too. Ewan, did you work some magic here?
Rich, I expected you’d do better than most, recalling some comments from you about this in the past. Your sloop rig, big jenny, typically light airs and inherently attentive handling of your boat, your “racer’s instincts,” surely all contribute. If you’re managing 45-degrees either side of the true wind, then I suspect that’s about as good as these boats will do. Also, if you’re making 7 to 10-degrees leeway (I assume that’s what you mean by “crabbing”), then by my personal definition you’re pinching to achieve the 90-degree tack, so maybe it’s not as efficient as falling off a tad and crabbing less? What’s that called, CMG? And as you say, perhaps it would be different in 12-15 knots offshore. Anyway, your achievement is my personal ideal for these boats.
John, if I understand your statement, you’re generally pointing 70 to 75-degrees either side of the wind, 140 to 150-degrees tack to tack. Big difference from what Rich is getting. (Sarah is a ketch, right?) That’s quite a difference, but not so surprising considering the differences in rigs and usage between you guys and your boats. Looking forward to hearing what others are getting from their 424’s to windward.
Thanks,
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Looks like my original email that opened this thread got posted here, but my subsequent answer to Rich & John did not. Here is what I wrote in that vanished email:
Rich, I expected you’d do better than most, recalling some comments from you about this in the past. Your sloop rig, big jenny, typically light airs and inherently attentive handling of your boat, your “racer’s instincts,” surely all contribute. If you’re managing 45-degrees either side of the true wind, then I suspect that’s about as good as these boats will do. Also, if you’re making 7 to 10-degrees leeway (I assume that’s what you mean by “crabbing”), then by my personal definition you’re pinching to achieve the 90-degree tack, so maybe it’s not as efficient as falling off a tad and crabbing less? What’s that called, CMG? And as you say, perhaps it would be different in 12-15 knots offshore. Anyway, your achievement is my personal ideal for these boats.
John, if I understand your statement, you’re generally pointing 70 to 75-degrees either side of the wind, 140 to 150-degrees tack to tack. Big difference from what Rich is getting. (Sarah is a ketch, right?) That’s quite a difference, but not so surprising considering the differences in rigs and usage between you guys and your boats. Looking forward to hearing what others are getting from their 424’s to windward.
Thanks,
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
——————My emails are failing to post here at present. (Ewan is working on that.) Here is one I just sent, but don’t expect to arrive here:
Mark,
Allow me to weigh in on the question of whether “age and value of the yacht warrants buying a new engine.” If you intend to use the boat much, and/or for many years, and if you’re not a master mechanic by trade, then you’re facing the same decision I did when I bought my boat 9+ years ago. She had an original, supposedly low-hours, strong-running but poorly maintained Westerbeke in her. Actually, I made my decision before I even bought the boat and subtracted the price of a new Yanmar, installed, from my offer to the seller. It took him a while, but he accepted, albeit with much grumbling. Within a month or so of closing I repowered the boat. (Incidentally, I was able to sell the old Westerbeke even before it was removed.) Ever since, especially when I’m cruising in the more remote places, every time I turn the key and that big, beautiful, well-maintained Yanmar fires up in a nanosecond and purrs until I shut it down, I bless my wise foresight.
Life, especially our cruising life, is simply too short to spent it fighting an obsolete, worn out, cantankerous engine. IMHO.
Have fun,
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
——————My emails aren’t arriving here anymore for some reason. I may give up corresponding with the group for a while and hope the bug goes away. In response to Rich’s post, I sent an email to this thread this morning as follows:
“I removed and serviced all Silverheels’ seacocks soon after buying her (but only re-installed half of them, as I’ve mentioned before). They’re as you describe, Rich. I unscrewed the flange from the outside. This was 9 years ago, so I don’t recall every detail exactly, but I believe I used a scrap of iron – I’m sure I saved it somewhere around here – that fit (or I made to fit) snugly into that notch cut into the inside lip of the flange that you mentioned on the outside of the thru-hull. Then I clamped a big crescent wrench onto the flat piece of iron to gain leverage and unscrewed it. I don’t recall it being particularly difficult.”
I didn’t know about the nipple wrench, Ken, but I suppose that’s what I approximated.
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
——————It appears many of my emails to this forum never arrive. Here’s the text of one I sent 10 days ago:
Rick,
I replaced the 2 aftermost large portlights (shower stall and aft cabin bunk) with opening aluminum portholes, possibly Bomar #N3519’s, which at the time cost $670 for the pair from Port Supply. They fit the existing cutout with only a little fussing and have served well for the past 6 or 7 years. All the rest of Silverheels’ ports are original, including 2 small opening portholes. Any that have leaked over the years I removed and re-bedded with rope caulk. None leak now.
Silverheels’ remaining 2 large original portlights have tinted lenses, which look like leprosy now. Replacing those lenses is on one of my to-do lists. If anyone has original long portlights they don’t need that are clear or clearly tinted, I’d love to get those lenses (windows), with or without the frames. Thanks!
The teak veneer paneling along the coachhouse insides (around the ports) was in good shape when I got this boat, but during my campaign to lighten the interior I painted them off-white along with a lot of other dark surfaces. That’s a quick, easy, inexpensive and practical alternative to replacement if the wood is in good shape, whether or not it’s water stained.
Tor
I emailed a reply yesterday, but it apparently never arrived:
Scott,
From what you describe, I see no reason not to re-use them (although Silverheels’ didn’t have thru-hull bolts, the seacocks being held in place by their own flanges). In fact, when I attacked the thru-hulls shortly after I bought my boat, I also re-used all the original, top quality Groco bronze seacocks after disassembling, inspecting, cleaning up and servicing them. They’re still perfectly sound. (BTW, Groco recommended Dow 111 (non-petroleum) grease for all the rubber parts.)
I also chose to seal up about half of those holes in the hull. Pearson acted like they were getting seacocks for free, the way they stuck them in for every little thing. I forget how many my boat had, but it reminded me of Swiss Cheese – and so unnecessary. By doubling (and tripling and more) up on thru-hulls I got it down a just half-a-dozen below the waterline. It’s lot less seacocks to service each year, and I sleep a little better at night.
Have fun,
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
——————David,
I never got around to building a fold-up swim platform on the transom, but the advantages are obvious. I did, however, move and modify the original ladder back there. Because it was installed dead center and I wanted to mount a windvane there, I offset it to port where the pushpit railing was already cut for easy passage through it. But I didn’t like the way the Pearson ladder folded. It fit even worse now than when it was center-mounted. So I cut it and welded on a 2nd pair of hinges, allowing it to fold in 3 sections (instead of the original 2) and thus fit the space better. The net result is a functional swim ladder that has served well for 7 years of liveaboard cruising. The pair of stand-off’s keep it at least vertical so climbers aren’t fighting extra gravity.
When folded up, my ladder is held in place by a long, light line with a slip knot. The other end of that line is led across the aft cockpit combing and then draped overboard so that it dangles a little above the waterline (near the engine exhaust pipe). Without this simple but effective “quick release,” if I ever dive (or fall) overboard without first putting the swim ladder down, I would have a hard time regaining the deck. As it is I simply pull on the dangling cord, which releases the folded ladder. I can then reach up and pull the ladder down to get back aboard.
Tor
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Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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