Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Bob,
From my (very fragile) owner's manual it appears Alcohol was the standard for at least the early 424s. When Jack & Patricia Tyler purchased Whoosh it was Alcohol and they converted it. However, since many of the 424's have a similar locker with 6# tanks (and that 2nd solenoid) my guess is it was a standard option.John
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Now I know what that switch on the outer wall of the galley was for. My stove has only one solenoid in the locker and two LPG sensors in the bilge (which won't allow the solenoid to open if any one of them sense LPG). I'm sure the hose has been replaced from the locker on as it is all rubber with no copper.
Apparently, in Pelican, the PO or PO's PO did a lot of work including engine replacement, thru-hull replacements, and new LPG stuff. I wonder if it originally came with an alcohol stove because the LPG locker in the aft lazarette looks home-made and has horizontal 6lb tanks.
Anyone have any insight into that?
Bob
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 7:47 AM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
we replaces ours on Clairebuoyant hull # 132.
A couple reasons:
Ther is a convergence at aft outboard corner of qtr berth where both copper propane lne, wires go thru bulkhead and the leaky bolts from the lifeline base are in proximity.
We added an inspection port behind the stove which gave access to this part of the line.
There was a second solinoid valve just forward of the stove in the storage locker, meaning there was an illegal break in the propane line.
The hose, premade on various lenghts is relatively cheap.
Propane can explode and kill you. IMHO, on an old boat, replace everything propane related. You already bought the stove, the most expensive part.
Also check the lower vent line from the propane locker to the transom, esp under the shelf. Some corrode thru and vent inside boat.
Quent—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
I no longer have my abstract from the ABYC on propane installation, but I do remember it stated that there should be no break in the propane line within the boat except at the stove connection, which should be fitted with a valve. Thatcher is correct it is not “illegal”, but it is non-conforming. I think there were a number of changes to ABYC specification in the late 80's or early 90's when the propane industry was lobbying to kill CNG. They pretty much succeeded by requiring CNG tanks to be lockered the same as propane (I was installing a CNG cooker at the time). The no-break rule might have come in at that time.
In any case, I still have the copper tubing and the 2nd solenoid.
John
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Good point about checking the propane locker's overboard drain hose or tube. When I bought my boat, the vent line was completely clogged with 30 years-worth of dirt that had found its way into that locker and gradually compacted in the line. I simply blew it clear with a couple of blasts from a garden hose from the outside.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Thanks, Tor – very interesting. Looks like my broker in MD did not post the selling data for my purchase.
I've re-attached the file as an Excel spreadsheet, which might make a little easier to browse.One of the factors that affected my purchase was location. When I purchased Sarah it was the only P424 listed in the Chesapeake area. Others were available in New England and of course Florida. I made an offer, which I believed the boat was worth (obviously didn't have this data, my broker was not as forthcoming as you), which the owner thought was an insult.. My broker encouraged me to raise the offer a little. I figured what it would cost to spend 2 or 3 nights in Florida looking at boats and added that to my offer. The owner accepted. This boat was within 40nm of my marina so it was a short day trip to take possession of the vessel. Of course that day trip was in the middle of February. A couple of my friends who helped me move the boat still complain about it.
John
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Quent,You're absolutely right about most 424's selling prices vs. what they cost their owners by the time they're fully renovated. As we all know, many if not most of the 424's for sale are a mess, having suffered the ravages of both age and neglect, a disastrous combination.
Even after a caring owner has renovated one of these boats, the real market resale value is to some extent limited by their selling price history. I used to own a yacht brokerage/dealership (http://www.AnchorYachts.com, east coast dealer for Valiant Yachts). One of the things I often did for my clients was provide fair market value (or fair purchase value) information for a given make/model used boat. For most of the past decade, the best source of this information has been from YachtWorld.com. They maintain a Sold Boat's database that is available to their member brokers only. (You won't find it on their public web site.) I still have access to the Member's Only portions of YachtWorld through my former company's continuing membership. This morning I pulled the data for the Pearson 424. It is attached for the group's consideration.
There are many factors that go into the ultimate selling price of any boat. For my part, I anticipate that when I eventually sell my 424, I'll recover most of the 6-figures I have invested in her to date, and none of the labor. That is to say, you'd better love fussing with your boat because you're never going to get paid for your time. Happily for me, I have (mostly) enjoyed working on my boat thus far, and will enjoy cruising her all the more for having refit her with my own hands. My efforts may well be without monetary value, but the experience has, for me, been priceless.
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
A quick look at the listing indicates an owner's health issue requires a quick sale. Also the boat is in Puerto Vallarta – not a great place to sell a boat.
john
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Sad to see one go for such a cheap price. I wonder if there's something wrong with it. A bad W60 engine might drive the cost down $20k. It would cost more than that to replace however. Maybe its a sign of the poor economy. I bet nothings selling.Rich
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Tor,
The best 24 hour run I've done on Sarah was back-to-back 168nm days. That comes out to an average of 7 kts for 48 hours. So there were extended periods were the speed was well above 7 kts., some of which was surfing – but not that much. We had about 25-35 kts of wind on the starboard quarter for the period.I've certainly seen extended periods (hour+) when the speed was above 7.5 kts. 8 kts and above was generally surfing or riding a strong current.
John
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I just realized (duh) that the 424 has a theoretical hull speed of 7.74 knots (1.34 x ?33.33'). This should
increase with a moderate angle of heel. Has anyone actually maintained 7-3/4 to 8 knots thru the water for any
length of time (without surfing or current)?Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Tor,
Yes it is amazing what people will pay or not pay on eBay. When I was prepping Sarah for the sail to Europe I had a 21-year old Aries from my previous boat. It was in excellent shape and had served me well, but I decided to go with the Monitor instead. I put the Aries up for sale and got more than half the cost of the monitor. Actually I got more than I paid for it in 1983. The guy who bought it was delighted with the price and the condition, so it was win-win. Sounds just like your experience.John
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I like to think of it as doing my part to stimulate the economy, with the added benefit of enhancing my lifestyle. Or maybe it's the other way around.Incidentally, the Simpson Lawrence manual windlass that came with my boat was in pretty good shape, not having been used too much in its long life. So after I removed it I cleaned it up, gave it a proper paint job (from zinc chromate primer to a presentable enamel paint finish), and posted it for sale on eBay. It fetched such an unexpectedly high price that it more than half paid for the new Lofrans 1500 electric windlass that replaced it. I was amazed and, of course, very pleased.
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Part of my thinking on a small well to clean the chain is that I still have a manual windlass. That makes cranking the chain and washing it at the same time a challenge for me (then again chewing gum and walking a straight line has become a challenge lately). If I convert to an electric windlass then I should be up to doing two things at once. Not very many boat units left in my IRA so maybe I should spend it before the Stimulus Package takes it all away.
John
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:John,I understand the urge to waterproof that access hatch, but you might want to allow for some ventilation through the chain locker, too. Perhaps there's no harm in leaving nylon line and galvanized chain permanently wet in a closed compartment, but it doesn't seem like the ideal. I actually made a simple dorade that can perch over the open deck pipe in port, funneling a breeze into the chain locker. The slotted hatch in the forepeak bulkhead gives that air someplace to exit, creating a freshening, drying cross flow. (Of course, if you've been anchoring in a lot of cruddy places, it might also funnel a not so fresh odor into the cabin! But then it's probably time to clean the locker.)
Just thoughts.
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi, Bob,
Actually I purchased a couple of sets of slide bolts before I left Florida (great minds, I'm sure). Purchased them from Home Depot, the bolts used to secure gates. I think they would work, but if I have to do some major fiberglass work (deck sponginess) I may want to do something major with the door as well. Maybe an aluminum hatch.John
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi John,I have the same door as you (some of us seem to have rectangular doors). I was thinking of simply adding 4 slidebolts with blocks underneath to match the height of the door. Maybe not the prettiest thing in the world, but solid and it's only my feet down there…
Bob
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Tor,
Thanks for the pics. I've got to do something about that foredeck area this year – getting a little sponginess around the old deck pipe. I would prefer not to lose the deck well as it is a convenient place to drop the chain (my horizontal windlass is forward of the locker) and clean it up a bit before dropping it down the deck pipe. However I do like you solution. I'm thinking of a middle solution – cut the well in half so I still have a place to drop the chain before it goes below, but still have enough solid deck to mount a vertical windlass similar to what you have done.What if anything have you done about the locker door at the foot of the V-Berth. Since I went to 275' of chain I find the chain shifts underway and knocks the lightly held door into the berth. Then some of the chain spills onto the berth. I'm looking to come up with a positive latching door with sufficient strength to hold back the chain, but the trapezoid shape doesn't work for that. I assume I'll bet cutting that bulkhead for whatever door I choose.
John
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Linus asked me about my chain locker & foredeck rebuild, so I thought I'd share some photos of it with the
group. Sorry, I haven't learned how to post this kind of thing on the 424 web site, or if these would even
belong there.The attached photos should answer some questions about that project (and could probably generate others). It
turned out that, because I positioned the vertical windlass to pull from the center of the deck to service
both anchors, neither anchor roller chute was lined up properly when the installation was completed. I'm now
changing their angle to slightly-pigeon-toed so the rodes lead fair to the windlass. Also not shown is the
2-piece, removable chain locker divider (I can take a photo of that if anyone wants one), but you can see the
2×4 slot-holders for it in one or two of these photos. With the divider (and the rodes) removed I can squeeze
into the chain locker through the forepeak bulkhead hatch, enough to reach much of the stuff in there for
servicing.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Tor,
“except I don't recall anchoring in 50' very often in the Med”That's probably because you were smarter than I and didn't cruise the Balearic's at the height of the charter (and European Holiday) season – August. Most of the calas have cordoned 100M or more off the shore to keep jet skiers out of the beach area. So you're starting the anchorage in about 10M of water. If you don't put in before noon the charter boats have all the close in spots taken. When I would arrive the only spots were in over 12M. Of course as soon as I had the hook secure, opened a bottle of wine and started dinner the charter boats would all pull up anchors and head back to the Marina for the evening.
That said, I did find several very nice anchorages in 10M or less. Cala Blanco on Ibiza was particularly nice and uncrowded (no beach).
John
2009/2/13 Alan P < ([email][/email])>
Quote:Rodd,
What plotter did you buy and where are you going to mount it?
alan— On Fri, 2/13/09, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Tor,
Yes, there are many ways to skin this cat. No matter how the splice is made, if it routinely goes through the roller it should be replaced periodically. I used only 50' of 3/8″ chain on my cruise in Europe and I re-spliced every year. That 50' was wholly inadequate when anchored in 50' of water, which was very common in the Med. Everyone else was riding on all chain. So now I carry 275' of 5/16″ chain and the rope to chain splice has never been within 100' of the deck pipe. So that splice may be good for a long time (unless I sail back to Europe – not likely). Here in the Bahamas that 50' would be more than adequate.
Using a shackle and eye splice for the rope to chain connection works ok as long as you have someone at the helm driving the boat ahead when you need to move the shackle over the chain wheel. For those of us who do a lot of single-handed sailing that is not normally an option. If its blowing more than 15 kts and I need to get the anchor up, pulling the boat forward enough to lift the shackle over the wheel can be a challenge. That's why I went to a rope splice.John
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I've seen that, John, and it seems to be equally acceptable. I just preferred spreading the strain on the line over a much greater area with the long spice. In fact, I made mine almost twice as long as the example in those instructions, tapering it towards the end.Whatever. If it works, it works.
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Another option for connecting rope to chain is a crown splice. It's a crown knot through the last chain link with remaining strands spliced back into the rope rather than into the chain. That's what I use to connect 5/8″ rope to 5/16″ chain. It provides a single link transition from chain to rope.
http://www.svsarah.com/Sailing/AtlanticCircle/Images/DSC01463.JPG
JohnOn Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rodd,Your anchor platform support strut sounds practical.
That maneuver of switching the anchor rode from the drum to the gypsy can be dicey in 35' of water, with the anchor and all that chain hanging straight down. You have to actually lift it a foot or so to get some links into the gypsy, and do it quickly before it backslides. Many chain gypsies today can also handle line. Mine does, so I joined the 3/8″ anchor chain and 5/8″ line together with a long warp-to-chain splice (instructions attached). The transition from line to chain in the gypsy is smooth and automatic.
As for switching the anchor rode load off the rollers, since the first 150' of my primary anchor's rode is all chain, I employ a snubber once the anchor's set. My snubber is a 10' length of 3-strand, 5/8″ nylon line eye-spliced to a strongly-backed eye-bolt in the boat's stem about 18″ above the waterline. This line is stowed in place, with the other end secured at the bow until I need it. Once my anchor is set, I attach the snubber to the chain with a rolling hitch (you can use a chain hook) and then feed out another 12' or so of chain. This puts the strain on the snubber and takes it off the chain entirely, which then hands slightly loose from the anchor roller. The snubber removes the strain from the roller, acts as a shock absorber, and lowers the anchor rode's angle of pull so that you need less scope to achieve a 5:1 or 7:1 scope/depth ratio. For this last reason, it can also make sense to use a snubber with an anchor line, and the snubber will eliminate anchor line chafe.
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Tor,
I'm pretty sure on Sarah (Hull #2) there was only one anchor roller when initially delivered. I have two rollers but they are different makes. I don't know which (if either) is the original.
I'm sure you've noticed on later models Pearson implemented an anchor platform on the bow. That platform most likely came with two rollers, but I've never looked closely at one.John
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Anybody know whether all 424's were built with two anchor roller mounts? I just removed mine and it appears as
though the port one was added at a later time. The wood beneath it had some kind of finish and is in better
condition than the starboard side. The starboard wood was natural and cracked/broken in several places. Just
curious if two rollers was always standard.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Paul,
Forgot to mention:IMO the advantage you have with an autopilot that it is independent of the steering system (except for the rudder) is it provides a backup in case either the wheel system fails. I assume you could configure a system with independent hydraulics for the autopilot and the wheel, but then you lose the savings of a single Ram. I would not want a system that if either the wheel steering or the autopilot failed it would take out the other.
It sounds to me that with the system you are considering if the hydraulic lines spring a leak you are immediately down to the emergency tiller (something I never want to happen).
Then again I know very little about hydraulic steering systems.
John
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:23 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Paul,
I'm familiar with hydraulic steering on a few friends' boats, none a p424. All of the sailboat owners hate it. The only advantage is the ability to install multiple steering stations (all of these friends have either pilot house sailboats or trawlers). The sailboat owners consider it a maintenance headache with no helm feedback when sailing. Of course they won't give up that inside steering station so they just live with the issues.Not sure what advantage it will give you on the P424.
John
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Howard:
See page 26/55 of attached manual:
Speaking of hydraulic autopilots, I have one to install as well. Rather than going the by-pass valve route to tie into the mechanical steering, I was thinking of converting the whole system over to hydraulic steering. Since the ram is already in place, the additional cost isn't that great.
Has anyone converted to hydraulic steering on their boat.
Thanks,
Paul
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Paul,
I'm familiar with hydraulic steering on a few friends' boats, none a p424. All of the sailboat owners hate it. The only advantage is the ability to install multiple steering stations (all of these friends have either pilot house sailboats or trawlers). The sailboat owners consider it a maintenance headache with no helm feedback when sailing. Of course they won't give up that inside steering station so they just live with the issues.Not sure what advantage it will give you on the P424.
John
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Howard:
See page 26/55 of attached manual:
Speaking of hydraulic autopilots, I have one to install as well. Rather than going the by-pass valve route to tie into the mechanical steering, I was thinking of converting the whole system over to hydraulic steering. Since the ram is already in place, the additional cost isn't that great.
Has anyone converted to hydraulic steering on their boat.
Thanks,
Paul
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Bob,
I'm not much help – I sealed my head outtake. Before that I reposition the thru-hull when I combined the engine and generator intakes. Again not much help with your question. I'm sure I have longer arms than you, but before I moved the thru-hull it was still a bitch. Sounds like you need to get your boatwright friend back to work with a hatch at the base of the companionway ladder (assuming that's where you thru-hull is located).John
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:The PO on my boat made a nice opening under the sink for the two valves – the drain and the seawater intake for the head. Unfortunately, opposite under the starboard side in an area that is virtually unreachable is the head through hull. I can't get there to operate it fully because my arms aren't that long. What have any of you done with that valve?Bob
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:FWIW,
I have only one seacock on Sarah, the one for the deck scupper under the aft cabin berth. All the other valves are ball-valves. The valves I've had installed are all Groco SS ball valves. I'm not sure about the other ball valves. The seacock is nice in that it can be taken apart during haulouts, but I've never had one of the ball valves freeze up. They get a little stiff, but gentle persuasion as always loosened them up.
What I don't know is why I have different type of valves from when I purchased the boat. No history from the PO about replacing valves so I guess Pearson just used whatever they had in inventory at the time.Good idea about cutting an access hole under the sink. I only had to work on the sink drain valve once and it was a bitch. I think there will be an access hole under there before next fall, when I also copy Bob Fine's cabin sole hatch in the galley.
John
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:FWIW, every season before launch I have all of the seacocks serviced and greased after a NE winter on the hard. This is also a much better way of discovering failure, than a t sea a week after launch. I keep my boat on a mooring. I close all the seacocks Sunday night and open them again Friday afternoon. Ease of operation is to me thus very important. Best to all.<.. snip>
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
