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FWIW,
I have only one seacock on Sarah, the one for the deck scupper under the aft cabin berth. All the other valves are ball-valves. The valves I've had installed are all Groco SS ball valves. I'm not sure about the other ball valves. The seacock is nice in that it can be taken apart during haulouts, but I've never had one of the ball valves freeze up. They get a little stiff, but gentle persuasion as always loosened them up.
What I don't know is why I have different type of valves from when I purchased the boat. No history from the PO about replacing valves so I guess Pearson just used whatever they had in inventory at the time.Good idea about cutting an access hole under the sink. I only had to work on the sink drain valve once and it was a bitch. I think there will be an access hole under there before next fall, when I also copy Bob Fine's cabin sole hatch in the galley.
John
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:FWIW, every season before launch I have all of the seacocks serviced and greased after a NE winter on the hard. This is also a much better way of discovering failure, than a t sea a week after launch. I keep my boat on a mooring. I close all the seacocks Sunday night and open them again Friday afternoon. Ease of operation is to me thus very important. Best to all.<.. snip>
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Quent,
That was my route. The marina at Spanish Cay was virtually empty when I was there (2 days). From where will you to depart? I went out at Ft. Pierce (easy inlet) then hugged the coast to St. Lucie and crossed over to White Sand Ridge (easier than Memory Rock). Most people go out a Lake Worth and head for Memory Rock or West End, but to me that seemed like a lot of unnecessary ICW time.
The Customs & Immigration agent at Spanish Cay (she comes over from Coopers Town) was very friendly with no attitude (something that is often in abundance at West End). She even took my personal check (without a lecture) for the Cruising Permit because I forgot they want cash.John
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:49 AM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
We are thinking Great Sale, then check in a Spanish Cay. Have friends on the hard at MOW.
Q—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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I'm also very familiar with Evanston, as I grew up there. Left to go to college (couldn't afford NU).
I also know there's no sailing in Evanston in February (not much in June either).John
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Norris:We have Windseeker, #214 on Long Island, NY., but we know Evanston well, as our daughter is in school there. Are you associated with NU in any way?
Rodd Leeds
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Quent,
Yep still here in MH. Been on the hook for over a month going through the Bahamas shuffle as I try to get my generator back in operation.Yes it blew pretty good on Wednesday, but nothing spectacular in the harbor. Max gust were near 30kts, but mostly winds in the 20-25 kt range. That was about the 4th or 5th decent blow since I dropped the hook on Dec 30. Lots of so called experts bad mouth Bruce anchors, but I haven't budged since I arrived. Of course it helps to be in a harbor with nice firm sand and little or no grass.
I'm moving to the Marsh Harbor Boatyards on Tuesday to finish the generator work (I hope). Then I plan to use the expected settled conditions to beat feet south on Thursday. Hope to finally get to Spanish Wells on that day then press on down the Exuma chain.
Where are you headed when you cross?
John
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 7:43 PM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Or maybe 3/8 inch brass hose to pipe adaptor spike, with a 3/8 pipe cap. Home Depot or any hardware store can match up to it.
John-
Are you still near Marsh Harbor or in the Abacos? I hear that it's blowing pretty good over there. We may come across Thursday.
Quent
Clairebuoyant #132—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Patrick,
It looks like 1/2″ pipe thread. It shouldn't be difficult to configure a connection to most pumps for oil evacutation.John
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I am getting ready to change my oil and I was checking how things are setup. I am glad I have a connection to my sump so I can hook up a pump as opposed to going through the dipstick. Here's a shot of the fitting:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/deepplaya/3260788951/I'm trying to figure out if there's some system I just need to acquire the other pieces for or if its just a standard fitting and I can get whatever I want.
Does anyone recognize that as a particular kind of connection or part of an off the shelf system?Thanks,
-p
s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com
Patrick's Sailing Blog | http://www.shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrick—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Dan,
I don't know how much space there is between the aft shower wall and the bulkhead, I suspect it is very little. If no one else knows I suggest taking a very small drill bit and drilling one hole where you plan to mount the shower head and then use a piece of wire to measure the depth.If you are around 6' tall or taller (I'm 6'2″) I suggest you mount the shower head outboard near the corner of the trunk cabin. That way you can sit on the bench (tub, bassinet … – what the heck is that really) and let the shower run on you. For me if the shower head were mounted inboard I would have to stoop under it to wash my hair. I prefer to wash my hair sitting down then stand up and use the shower head in my hand to wash the rude spots.
Just a suggestion.
Yep, cutting through that wall requires a little courage. It's less than 1/4″ thick. Before you cut it out I suggest you tie something to the cutout portion or it may drop down under the shower pan and remain there forever (inaccessible). Bob Fine and I both learned that lesson independently when we installed hatches on our boats.
John
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:48 AM, kalinowski < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I'm in the process of refitting the shower on Lady Leanne and am measuring twice before cutting once. Can anyone tell me how much space there is between the aft shower wall and the bulkhead by the chart table?
I've purchased a hand held shower head with a bar slide mount and thought about mounting the unit in the high aft inboard corner to give as much height as possible. The elbow fitting for the hand held unit would require some room between the walls to mount and also allow me to fish a water line to the control valve, which would be mounted where the existing mixer valves are.
I've also purchased the hatch door to mount on the outboard starboard wall and am building up the courage to begin cutting. Knowing the space behind the aft wall will allow me to better lay out the new plumbing parts before I begin hacking away.
Dan Kalinowski
Lady Leanne (#135)
Honolulu—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Tor,
I've got about 10,000 off-shore miles on Sarah and have not experienced any problems from oil canning. Of course very few of those miles involved sailing to windward. I did get caught in a mild storm for a little over 6 hours on the way back from Bermuda in 2001 where we did fall off a few waves. Turned the interior of the cabin into a mix-master, but no apparent problem with oil-canning.That said, I am sure it is one of the few weaknesses in the hull. You can verify it for yourself if Silver Heels is still hauled-out. Take a anything with a broad surface on a pole, place the surface under the hull in the flat forward sections and push up. You can deflect the hull quite a bit with relatively little force. You can do the same in the flat aft sections as well. I know this because my purchase surveyor demonstrated it and recommended I have those section stiffened, but he didn't put it in the written report.
Every time I've gotten ready for a long off-shore passage I've thought of that demonstration and the fact I've done nothing about it. Then I tell myself I'll do it right after this passage….
Didn't do it this year.
John
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:19 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I'm planning some offshore passages with my boat in the not-too-distant future and would like to get a handle on just how prevalent this forepeak tab-breaking and oil-canning is in Pearson 424's. In the discussion of this topic last year, online at https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?t=139&highlight=berth, Rich wrote, “Try to imagine having your boat heeled over until the rail is almost in the water. Then run up the face of a steep 20 foot wave and drop off the back side until everything up the forward section of your boat is in freefall. The flat section of the bow will slap against the trough on the back side of the wave. Now imagine doing that for a day or two.”It seems to me most sailboats would suffer damage from that kind of repeated punishment. Clearly, those were conditions in which that particular boat was pushed beyond her endurance. Rich, on reflection do you think reefing and slowing the boat down, coupled perhaps with easing off the wind another point, might have prevented the breakage that occurred in the forepeak? I ask because it seems to me the majority of 424's have not been structurally enhanced in that area, and yet many have logged successful offshore passages over the decades.
Are there any others among us who have taken your boats offshore, who can shed more light on this issue? Have you weathered rough conditions, particularly going to windward, and did your boat suffer damage in the forepeak as a result?
Thanks,
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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John,
Bermuda is a great trip, I've only done it 4 times (not counting stopping on the way back from Europe), and I'm looking forward to my next trip.My only thought is that since you will be departing from Maine, most of this trip will likely be on a close reach rather than the broad reach from the Chesapeake Bay. So I suspect you will have more wind leverage than i did. I don't think you'll use the spinnaker on the way to Bermuda very much as any winds aft of abeam will likely be fresh to moderate. The spinnaker will likely be very useful for the return trip..
Obviously the most important navigation issue is the Gulf Stream. It will be even more of a factor on your route than those I've sailed as you will be sailing through the area of greatest variation in its position, speed and eddies. I recommend you work with a good Gulf Stream specialist, such as Jenifer Clark, to get a good position on the stream and its eddies before you depart. Navigating the stream properly can be the difference of more than 24 hours in completing the cruise. Jenifer can provide a graphical Gulf Stream Analysis via email within 24 hours of your departure for about $35.
The other piece of equipment that is very useful for an extended off-shore voyage is a SSB radio to receive updated Wx info enroute. This doesn't require a Ham license, but it is not a trivial equipment installation. You also have to be able to interpret the WX data you receive, primarily GRIB files. This isn't essential equipment for a voyage of less than 10 days and I would only recommend it if you have the time to invest in developing expertise in both the radio and the data. When i made the first trip to Bermuda on Sarah I understood the data (ex USAF meteorologist), but I was clueless on HF radio. Fortunately one of my crew was very knowledgeable on the radio side of things and between us it worked well. With just the SSB radio you can also us Herb Helgenberg as your weather router.
June 19 is a good departure date. Late enough that most of the storm systems will be north of you once you are south of Cape Cod and early enough that tropical storms should not be a major threat for your return.
Make sure you allow enough time to enjoy your stay in Berrmuda. Those Dark & Stormies can extend your time in port.
John
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:35 PM, John Sommer < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hello,
Well Walter's video from Madness this past fall inspired me…I am planning on taking Indulgence to Bermuda in the spring. I think she is ready…over the past couple of years she has had a lot of work done (new rigging, sails, new chain plates, new fuel polishng, new Eprib, ample spares for coastal cruising, etc).
I have been doing my part to stimulate the economy over the past month. If I new how much it cost to get a boat ready for an offshore passage…..I might have re-considered. Recently, I have added an off-shore life raft, up-graded medical kit, harness and tethers for the crew, spare GPS, preventer, and used assymetrical spinnaker.
I'm having Balmar rebuild my alternator and will be purchasing a spare motorolla type alternator. I still have to purchase charts, and ditch-bag supplies, ham radio and a laptop. I have assembled my crew (all co-workers). We have set the date for June 19th (depending on weather).
Thanks to John from s/v Sarah (his Bermuda information is excellent), it became apparenty one of my biggest worries would be light winds….and as we all know, the 424 is not a great light wind performer. I decided to add the asymmetrical spinnaker to augment Indulgence's light air permance.
We'll be sailing from Portland, ME and will be arriving (hopefully) about the same time as the Marion to Bermuda Race and a Cruising rally from NY. From John's website, it was pretty apparent that I would be lucky to average 120 miles a day sailing to Bermuda in June and would have to closely monitor fuel supplies.
I figure 7 days as the worst case for each leg…again with no issues to turning on the engine except for fuel. My question to the group is:
What am I missing? If you were sailing to Bermuda, what would you need/want to have on board?
Thanks for your advice and suggestions.
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John Stevenson
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Tor,
I follow the general rule below:- Upper shrouds, head stay, back stay – 15% of working strength
- Lower shrouds – 10% of working strength
Then finish tuning under sail
John
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I just got my hands on a rigging wire tension gauge and want to use it to fine-tune my standing rigging. Does
anyone know the correct tensions for the various stays and shrouds on a P424 ketch?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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John Stevenson
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Tor,
The tiller pilot writeup was also by Jack Tyler. All of the articles in the Whoosh section of my website were written by Jack & Patricia, I'm just their publisher. My boat articles are under the SV Sarah link at the top of the page.John
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks, John. Yes, Jack's fittings are very similar to what I want for my staysail. However, unlike a Solent stay my staysail stay will fasten to the middle of the foredeck. A protruding deck fitting there would be a guaranteed toe-breaker whenever the stay is removed. So I'm going to shell out the bucks for the Wichard folding double pad-eye that Bob Fine used.I happened to scroll down the svsarah.com page for which you sent me a link (below). Your mini-article on windvanes and tiller pilots is excellent! Well written and right on. I am this very day ordering an Auto-Helm windvane from Scanmar Marine (same guys that build Monitor windvanes), and will be setting up a tiller pilot with that almost exactly as you did. I'm using an Auto-Helm brand windvane primarily because it's the only model I found that allows me to simultaneously use my davits. (I also like the independent “2nd” rudder.)
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
The link to Jack Tyler's writeup on the Solent. The mast fitting he had fabricated sounds similar to what you are looking for. I went with a standard Wichard fitting for my mast attachment. You can find my solution by going to the SVSarah link and then clicking on the upgrades menu.http://www.svsarah.com/Whoosh/WhooshPrepMods.htm
John
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,I'm inclined to have the mast fitting for the staysail stay & halyard block wrap around the mast a bit more than yours does, although since yours has held up I'm sure it's is fine. I'll check with those spar makers before I make something up myself. Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm planning to mount my staysail's deck fitting farther aft than your PO did, probably 5-6″ from the after edge of the chain locker bulkhead. Hence, the longer plate. You're right about the head-splitting edge of that gusset, though, and I will definitely do something to modify it.
I've seen the cable to the base of the stem you mention, which splits the V-berth. I prefer our approach.
Thanks again,
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
Installed the 4JH4AE last winter. Didn't get a lot of use over the summer, but mostly motored from the Chesapeake Bay to Marsh Harbor, The Bahamas. Current engine hours; 270Engine RPMs at idle: 700; at cruising: 2000; at full throttle 2900
Cruising speed (flat water): 6.8 kts; full throttle: 8 kts
Prop size & Pitch: Maxprop 20″. Don't know the pitch. We set it originally to PYI specs for the Yanmar then had to reduce it after sea trials because we couldn't get over 2500 RPMs. I just realized I didn't get the mechanic to write down the final settings for the Maxprop (which have to be converted to pitch).
Dont' really have good metrics on on consumption, but it appears to be a little more than the W60. i'd guess a little less than 1 gal/hour at cruising rpms.John
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Would appreciate hearing from any and all who have a Yanmar 4JH4E in their P424. Specifically wish to know:
– What are your engine's RPM's at idle, cruising speed, and full-throttle?
– What are your boat's cruising and full-throttle speeds under power?
– What is your prop size and pitch?
– What is your average fuel consumption rate at cruising speed?Thanks,
Tor
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http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Dan,
What Rich posted is correct. Almost every 424 has a different port configuration. There are no opening ports in my head, but I do have a hatch over the shower stall.I don't have any spare portlights in my parts bin (how did that happen?), but it might help others if you posted a picture of the port you want to repair.
John
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:49 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Dan
Pearson used several different ports during the 424 production cycle. Mine came with aluminum framed ports with rounded ends. I may still have a pair of them somewhere if I didn't toss them out. Is this the type you are looking for?Rich
BlackSheep #47
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For those battery installations that make wet-cell battery access difficult you might consider a product like Qwik-Fill.
http://www.flow-rite.com/pro-fill/index.html?open_menu=0&sub_menu=1
This came up on the SSCA Forum recently. It looks like the current product is limited to smaller batteries (group 27 and smaller). They make a product, Pro-Fill, for 9-volt batteries. This would allow you to maintain proper water level in the batteries without having direct access to the battery valves. The products were designed for small power boats and golf carts so I have no idea what happens on a sailboat that is heeled 15 degrees or more.I have considered stacking batteries as other have suggested in this thread. Something like this product might make that practical for wet-cells, which I prefer to AGM and Gel. However, I would likely go to those alternatives for a stacked or tightly spaced installation.
John
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have two 4-Ds in the standard starboard battery boxes and 2 4-Ds in the locker aft of the water heater. Three 4-Ds are the house bank, 1 4-D is the reserve bank. I use the Xantrex 2000 as a monitor/controller and the Freedom 2000 inverter/charger attached to the house bank and the echo charger attached to the reserve bank.
I think either Tor or Rich or Walter have moved all their batteries to the locker aft of the water heater using 4 6 volt traction batteries.
All my batteries are AGM.
I would like to move the lazerette batteries lower down but lack the room anywhere to put them. I have an idea – build a bench for the nav station that holds them but it is way down the list of stuff I have to do.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Bob,
Great job & thanks for publishing the process. I've bookmarked it so I can refer to it when I start a similar project next summer or winter (where I don't know).
Were you able to completely cut out the cabin sole with the Dremel tool? I've used a similar tool from Fein ($$$), but I think it would take forever get through the sole with that tool. I think I'll invest in the Dremel.John
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:As an aside, which may or may not be helpful, here's a link to opening the space under there without moving the table.http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com/2008/11/there-is-never-enough-space.html
Bob
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Paul
AGM batteries are sealed, so there's no maintenance. I have two flooded
cells in there too, so I must service them once each season. I can slide
the batteries aft far enough to lift them out of the box. Once out, I can
clean out the battery box, wipe down the batteries, and top them off. Its
fairly easy to do but I wouldn't want to do it each week. When the
batteries are stowed, a wooden brace runs across the top of the batteries
and holds them in place. If the boat were to roll over, the batteries
wouldn't fall out. There's about 300 lbs of batteries down there. You
don't want them tossiing around the cabin. The access hatches lock into
position too.If I had it to do again, I might cut another access hatch in the cabin sole
beneath the galley table and glass the box in there. This would probably
require removal of the table to service the batteries, but that's done each
season anyway.Regards
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