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Tor,
I think you nailed it. I have the same owner's manual with the 150 gal spec. I suspect the brochure is based on the design drawings and the owner's manual is based on the boats that came out of the shop. Maybe that's why there's a locker space aft of the main cabin tanks – the installed tanks were smaller than that in the specs.
That brochure was the original for my hull #2.John
Tue, May 13, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks, John. I have a copy of that brochure, too. I got the 150-gallon figure from the original Pearson “Owner's Guide and Protection Plan,” a 3/4″-thick, blue-covered, spiral-bound book that was apparently given to the original purchaser of my boat in 1978. It contains a wealth of information about the boat and related matters, but is not specific about the individual water tank capacities.It's possible later model 424's have 20 gallons more water capacity than my #17. It's also possible, I suppose, that Pearson didn't know exactly how much water fit in the tanks, and used different approximate numbers at different times.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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The brochure that was in the documentation with my 424 says 170 gal. I guess that means 60/60/50. I've never attempted to verify the capacity.
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 2:54 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I think it is 170gal. If I ever replace the side tanks, I may try for slightly larger tanks.—
Rich Carter
Original message
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He recut the sail by marking it on the foot where the new clew would go. I doubt he recorded any measurements, but he might have. Quantum, Solomons, MD.
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 9:14 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Kinda hard to keep fenders in place like that huh?
Ok, so you had the Staysail recut. Sorry I miss read
your web site. I was trying to get some approximate
Foot,Leach and Luff measurements. At least a place to
start from. Would your sailmaker remember?
alan— John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Alan,
I didn't have the Storm Jib re-cut, just had the ATN
sleeve removed and
hanks added. I had the staysail recut this winter.
I honestly don't know
what the sail area is. It was re-cut to allow the
sail to be sheeted inside
the shrouds not to a specific size. It is about 1/2
the size of the
original sail which was a modification to a working
jib on the 424, so that
might give you some idea.
I've decided that I will sheet the staysail to
tracks on the forward edges
of the coach roof. I'll use track primarily to
spread the load. I haven't
yet decided how I'll bring the sheets back to the
cockpit. I don't expect
to start on that work for another month or so.
Right now I'm waiting for the water level to go back
down below the level of
the dock. We're still 2 hours away from high tide
and the dock is under 6″
of water. East winds at the mouth of the Chesapeake
are a bitch, especially
at this dock which was built about 2' too low.John
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 7:12 AM, alan P
< ([email][/email])> wrote:Question for John Stevenson;
John, when you had your Storm Jib recut, whatwere
the final dimensions?
Have you come up with a sheet arrangement?
thanks
alan____________________________________________________________________________________
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Alan,
I didn't have the Storm Jib re-cut, just had the ATN sleeve removed and hanks added. I had the staysail recut this winter. I honestly don't know what the sail area is. It was re-cut to allow the sail to be sheeted inside the shrouds not to a specific size. It is about 1/2 the size of the original sail which was a modification to a working jib on the 424, so that might give you some idea.
I've decided that I will sheet the staysail to tracks on the forward edges of the coach roof. I'll use track primarily to spread the load. I haven't yet decided how I'll bring the sheets back to the cockpit. I don't expect to start on that work for another month or so.
Right now I'm waiting for the water level to go back down below the level of the dock. We're still 2 hours away from high tide and the dock is under 6″ of water. East winds at the mouth of the Chesapeake are a bitch, especially at this dock which was built about 2' too low.John
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 7:12 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Question for John Stevenson;
John, when you had your Storm Jib recut, what were
the final dimensions?
Have you come up with a sheet arrangement?
thanks
alan____________________________________________________________________________________
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John Stevenson
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I think John found the key, if you're not really looking for the offset you probably won't notice it – unless you are pulling the prop shaft. Even if you are looking for it, it is probably easy to miss. When Sarah was short-hauled in Feb to re-pitch the Maxprop I looked to see if there was an off-set, but with the mechanic costing my $100/hour I didn't ask him to step out of the way while I checked the offset :).
It does appear that this offset was a common practice at Pearson on more than the 424. There is a Pearson 28 at my dock and the owner claims his shaft is also offset and the boat is a bear to steer under power. Probably the effect on a 28 footer would be more severe than on a 42 footer. I don't notice any steering issues once underway in forward. The stern does walk to starboard in reverse. No problems turning to port at slow speeds, starboard is another matter.
Rich is certainly right that this not something Pearson would do randomly. They might have changed the practice after a certain hull number. So if you haven't actually inspected your boat for this configuration when it is out of the water, I wouldn't assume it is not there just because you never noticed it.John
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:16 AM, John Sommer < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hello,
When Rich first suggested that Pearson put shaft slightly offset it made me very curious….when I was working on the boat yesterday, I stood about 15 or so feet back from the stern and was able to see a very slight offset to starboard.
The boat is schedule to be launched the 19th. It's been a busy winter…Replacing the chain plates was a bigger job than I had imagined. Total cost was a bit over $500. I used one template each for the large and the small chainplates. My other project was replacing all my running rigging…I'll be installing the new rigging next week…before the masts go back in.
Once launched there still is alot to do…Cetol the teak, work on some rewiring for the tricolor, install some insulation on the cover of the fridge, and fix some other miscellaneous problems.
I am planning on attending the SSCA Gam in Isleboro 8/1 and 8/2. If anyone is cruising Maine this summer, please let me know.
John Sommer
Indulgence #179
Portland, ME
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John Stevenson
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RE: 4JHE fuel consumption.
Hopefully I get some metrics this summer on my 4JH4AE.
I had fairly good metrics on my old W60 thanks to some extended engine usage in the last 3 years. On long motor trips I usually kept the RPMs around 1800, which in calm conditions gave me close to 6 knots through the water. At that RPM level fuel consumption was about 0.75 gal/hr.John
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:16 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone got fuel consumption rates for a 424 with a Yanmar 4JHE?
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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John,
I'm not familiar with the Hull Coupler, but I did have an M700 on board for several years.
The short answer to your question is the M700 was not designed for the type of full power operation that the Pactor modems demand. Further it does not have a TNC (Terminal Net Control) interface necessary to connect it to a Pactor modem. So if email is your objective, you probably should look for a different rig.That said, I did use my M700 for email for several years, but principally on a sail to Bermuda in 2001. My friend, who installs HF radios as a small business, modified the M700 to provide the TNC. In spite of the warning of engineers I never fried this rig using it for email. So it can be done. The modification is a fairly simple soldering job, but as they say, ” It took fifteen minutes to solder the wires, but 30 years of experience to know where to put the wires.” So it can be done. Whether that is the best way to go depends on how important email is to your cruising plans.
I switched to the M802 just before departing Florida and just before getting my Ham license because I knew I was going to be very dependent on HF email for weather data and keeping friends and family informed. I also planned to use Herb Helgenberg's weather routing service during the trip. I didn't want to find out just how long that M700 would really hold up to the Pactor workout. Also you can't control the M700 frequencies from a PC. They must be manually entered into one of program slots then dialed with the channel control. With the M802 and similar radios with a RS232 interface I can select the frequency in the Airmail program and let it set the radio the right frequency. This was a great help when propagation conditions forced me to try several stations and at several different frequencies before getting a good connection.
So for me replacing the M700 was worth the many boat units it cost. Mitigating that cost there are a lot of people for whom the M700 is a great box, and I had no trouble selling it on eBay.
John
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:43 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a very old (24 yrs) HF system that came with the boat.
ICOM IC-M700 HULL H402CU Coupler
Backstay antenna, huge copper ground plane under entire cabin with a 3″ wide copper going to HF chassis ground. Seemed to work OK when in Bahamas a few years ago.
Now am planning for some extended cursing (3-? yrs) and want to set up for email, weatherfax, GRIB forecasts and more. Got the HAM Tech license and am working on General.
Is any of this old stuff worth keeping?
Would appreciate info on where to go from here on equipment and how to.
I have Capt Marti Brown books “HF Radio E-Mail for IDI-Yachts” and “Marine SSB Radio for IDI-Yachts”
Spent an evening trying to figure out what a “IDI-Yacht” is and gave up and just drank wine.
On another issue there have been several emails concerning “Bow Section Oil Canning”.
All the problems seem to be in early hull #'s. MARIPOSA #216 (1983) has a balsa core and after close inspection does not seem to show evidence of any of any problems. Has anyone with later hull #'s had any problems?John #216 Cutter
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John Stevenson
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I've pretty much shot the bolt on my expertise on marine HF radios with the previous posts. My counterpoise is a run of 3″ foil from the forward cabin down the port side of the bilge to 1″ braid that runs across the back of the engine compartment to my SGC230 mounted on the side of the hull in the starboard locker. The reason the foil goes down the port side then crosses over is because I had the yard install a Dynaplate (what I believe Bob has in the aft locker), but they got confused and put it on the wrong side of the boat – something I didn't discover until the boat was back at my dock and we were starting the SSB installation. After completing the installation I learned that all the experts believe the Dynaplates are so tiny (even the largest ones) that they are virtually useless in the counterpoise. This summer I will start experimenting with the SSB again and may lay a second foil down the starboard side and connect it to the lead ballast in the keel with a hanger bolt. The most consistent recommendation I have received is to connect as much metal mass as possible to the counterpoise that is not part of boat's electrical system (which rules out the engine block).
With the existing foil set up I got very inconsistent connections to Winlink and SailMail when we left Florida. Herb Helgenberg never got a really good copy on us to the point where I stopped using his net a few days out of Bermuda. Finally in Horta we experimented with radials (multiple wires connected to the SGC230 ground lug strung in various directions around the boat. That seemed to improve the SWR readings for the Winlink frequencies with the best propagation for our cruise from the Azores to Portugal and I had the best connections of the trip on that leg.
Alan is right if you ask for advice from the experts you will get multiple answers, even from one person. That's because there are actually many ways to achieve effective radio performance on a boat and it is also because radio installation is a black art.On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:49 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I think if you ask 10 people about grounding a SSB
radio you will most likely get 11 opinions.
ICOM has some great tech articles on the subject. The
best place to ask questions about SSB is the SSCA
forum.alan
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Alan,
I'll let Rich speak for his experience with the SGC2000, but one of my friends who is in the business of re-selling and installing marine HF radios has an SGC2000 on board. He has a similar opinion on it as Rich expressed, but he still uses it on board, and he is fairly active on the Ham frequencies. He does not do a lot of DSQing, but he does (or used to) participate in the most of the cruisers nets on the East Coast and the Caribbean. I think if he ever went cruising (never happen) he would upgrade the SSB – he buys radios wholesale. In the meantime it meets his needs.
So I think whether the SGC2000 sucks for you depends on how important it is in your cruising plans and where you cruise. If you're just going to the Caribbean for a few years and have a Ham license, the SGC is probably adequate. If you want to cross an ocean maybe you should consider an upgrade. I assume you have the SGC230 tuner, which most knowledgeable people consider the best. That's what I use with my 802. So if you decide to upgrade the SSB don't let the SGC230 go, it will work with just about any marine SSB.
That Pactor modem will put a lot of demand on your radio so that should be a good test of the adequacy of the SGC for your needs. If you can reliably connect to SailMail or Winlink, why upgrade? Of course success with SailMail and Winlink has as much to do with the quality of the counterpoise as it does with the HF radio.
With regard to Winlink and Sailmail. Last summer, sailing back to the US, I found it very difficult to connect to Winlink, but consistently connected to SailMail. That even though there were a lot more stations in the Winlink network and generally better propagation available than to the single SailMail station in Europe (Brussels). Eventually I stopped attempting to connect to Winlink and used SailMail the rest of the way. Once I was within 1500 nm of the US SailMail stations I was able to connect reliably with them. I did have to request additional time from SailMail – you are limited to 90 minutes in any 7 consecutive days. I never discovered or got an explanation of why I had such great success with SailMail and such little success with Winlink.John
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:27 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rich,
Does your SGC-2000 suck that bad. My boat came with
one and a tuner. I have not had much time to play with
it so I don't know how “good” it is. Although I have
talked to some guy from Texas and have listened to
one of the cruisers net when the weather is right and
the stars are aligned. I have purchased a pactor
modem this winter and plan to start messing around.
alan—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Rich,
Thanks for a great overview of marine SSB and Ham for onboard.
One exception the USCG and NOAA have not discontinued WX FAX broadcast. They put out a request for information (RFI) on the need to continue this service last year, but as far as I know there are no imminent planes to discontinue the service. I know it was still active yesterday because I had to re-install my Airmail software after a hard drive failure and one of the things I checked out was GetFax. Boston is still transmitting weather fax charts.
I never responded to the RFI because WX FAX is not important to me as long as I can download GRIB files from Saildocs and the same FAX charts from Winlink.John
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Lee,
I'm sure you know this a huge subject with almost as many subjective opinions as anchors and anchoring.
I have an ICOM M802 and it has worked well. Before that I had an ICOM M700, which also worked well. The M802 has a lot more bells an whistles than the M700, but also cost a lot more. I paid $1600 for the M802 in 2005 and sold the M700 on eBay to someone in American Samoa for $400 that same year. Most the cruisers I've met over the last couple of years have either an M802, M710 or the M706. These ICOM models are marine SSB models, but can be opened up to the full HAM frequencies. Dedicated HAMS tend to have sets that are primarily HAM units (other ICOM models, Yaezu, Kenwood, etc.)
Any of the marine or HAM HF radios can be tuned to the WX FAX frequencies, but you need a computer and software to decode the signals into a graphic display and a way to get the signals into a computer. The Airmail software has a decoder for FAX and a viewer, but requires a Pactor modem ($$). There are software packages that will process the FAX signals through the computer sound card, but I have no experience with them.
I normally get my weather charts from Saildocs and Winlink on the Internet via Winlink or Sailmail. These are digital images and generally take less time to download than it takes to receive a FAX. Many times the FAXes are unintelligible, and you have to remember to turn on the radio when the chart you want is transmitting.If you are a member of SSCA you can go to that website and browse the equipment surveys by SSCA members. The SSCA probably has more members with marine HF radios than just about any other organization (sailing and otherwise). It might be worth the $40 annual dues just to get access to those surveys
.
http://www.ssca.orgJohn
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Lee Yonkers < ([email][/email])> wrote:
The HF that came with my boat doesn't work. What make and model are you guys using? Are you happy with what you have? What about weather fax capability, this is important to me.
Lee Y
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John Stevenson
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Aaron,
Are you talking about the compression fittings for the pressure water system? They are available at Loew's, Home Depot and other hardware stores. The fittings are for 1/2″ OD hose – at least on my boat.John
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Do you have the fittings made by parker? I’ve wondered if different fittings will fit the ‘stock’ tubing. Where do you get the fittings?
I have several that pop off every time the boat heels.
On 4/28/08 4:09 PM, Robert Fine wrote :
Hi Paul,
The water tubing is actually not marine tubing – it's used in homes for domestic hot water and for radiant floor heating, both of which can be hotter than 140 degrees. The fittings, however, should be replaced whenever you break one (the plastic ones, not the metal ones). Typically, I've replaced 50% of mine and out of those, more than half had the metal ring in backwards…
Bob
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I see that Force 10 has a TCV available for their units that re-directs the engine coolant once the water temperature is 140F. Have these typically been installed with a new heater. While I assume that you want to get as much free hot water as you can, I was wondering if the temperature can get to hot when you motor all day for that plastic tubing that Pearson installed for the water lines.
Thanks,
Paul
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John Stevenson
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I would agree with Paul, more drains is likely more effective than trying to seal the lockers. A positive latch is a very good idea. I just shoved a shackle in the lock hasp to hold the lockers closed. Fortunately I never had to test how effective that was. We took a large amount of seawater into the cockpit only once and then only a little more than half-way up to the lip of the locker hatch. We were sailing level, so it was a lot of water. I don't know how many minutes it took to drain all the water, but it felt like a lifetime. I hadn't added any drain capacity.
John
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Walter
Were you planning on adding a larger 3-4″ drain in the cockpit like Richard and others have done. That should keep water levels down in most situations.
I think you would find adding tape a hassle in pretty short order, especially when you want to access the locker after you have just put it on. If you are really concerned about getting pooped, you could make up waterproof covers that velcro to the lip around the opening to the locker. They would be easy to remove and out of site with the lid closed.
Paul
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John Stevenson
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Actually Walter, I suspect our chain plates came out of the machine shop on the same day. We'll never know which ones were cut from the stock first. I did a visual inspection on my chain plates – no sign of water intrusion nor of corrosion. I re-bedded the cover plates last summer after the sail back from Europe. I will replace those chain plates prior to another long passage as I'm now less concerned about corrosion as I am about metal fatigue.
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Seawater < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I took all of mine out, Inspected them, had them inspected by a machinist (just in case) and put them back in with new bolts. No corrosion, no signs of stress.
I assume they are original, and arguably the oldest ones out there.
Walter
SV Madness
P424 Hull #1—
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John Stevenson
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Patrick,
I hope your deal goes through in the way you want, but you gotta get one thing clear – that ain't no pitchfork it's a trident. We're not farmin' – we're sailin'.John
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Patrick_Seattle < ([email][/email])> wrote:
If my deal goes through I was thinking about paying someone to make some printmfg quality artwork of all the logos so I can get replacement decals, when needed for sails, silly personal use, etc.
The logos I am aware of are:
- * Pearson Yachts text with the pitchfork/”P” Flag logo as seen on the traveler housing
* Pearson 424 text with the pitchfork/”P” Flag logo as seen in the brochures. I don't think this is even on the boat anywhere
* 424 text with the pitchfork/”P” Flag logo as seen on the sailsAre there any other combinations or logos I'm missing? When I get this done (won't be till this summer) I'll share all the original artwork files.
http://shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrick—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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