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I mounted mine exactly 1/2″ in front of the mast. It was the furthest aft
it could go before special plates had to be made for the feet. I use the
bases for the staysail sheet mounting points.Bob
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Ken,The “forward edge of the pulpit line” isn’t necessarily perpendicular to
the
boat’s fore & aft plane. A right-handed person will normally stand a little
further forward on the port side of the main mast (where the staysail or
spinnaker halyard winch is) than on the starboard (where the main halyard
winch is). Go try it – stand on both sides of the mast exactly where you’d
want to be to crank the winch – and you’ll see what I mean. The pulpits are
best positioned for that variance, with the port rail several inches
further
forward.So, for your purposes, I’d measure from the foremost foot of the port rail.
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Funny, Ken, I just did the same job on a Pearson 35 (’73) and it was
exactly as you describe. That was the boat I had to build the sea boards
for because the large portlights are big enough to meet the SOLAS criteria.I, too, was surprised by the thinness and poor fit. But thankfully there’s
silicone for which Pearson must have had stock. There were pounds of it in
each portlight…On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Page Two wrote:
Something else to consider is how well they were put in too. At present I
am working on a Pearson 35, late 70’s. Not a 424 by a long shot but still
built by the same yard, I’ll assume. Somebody please correct me if I’m
wrong. I first had to re-cut 4 fixed ports to replace with opening ss. They
weren’t too bad other than I was surprised how thin the actual outer layer
of glass was about 3/16″ The inner layer was about the same thickness but
of way less quality lay-up. It was very….brittle and came apart easy. Of
course they were not connected and any water leakage has the opportunity to
run down between the layers and come out anywhere outboard in any locker.
Anyway those ports went in well.Now, when I pulled out the 4 “fixed” large lights, 32″ by 9″, holy shit!
The cut-out on the outer skin was crude and barely the actual shape of the
port that had to fit in it. At two places when the outer flange of the port
came up to the cabin side there was barely an 1/8″ support. And the inside
cut-out was worse and off centered to boot so that when this whole assembly
was put in my guess would be it had exactly half or less…..of the actual
surface area of the outer layer keeping it from blowing out/in.What’s really interesting is that, that was the stb side, the port side
was considerably better but still so crude it has me believing a well place
sea the size of many I have seen pop a side deck would punch that port
straight into the boat. Hey, maybe the “new kid” cut those ports out on
that particular day after a night out I can’t be sure, but with anything to
do with a production boat, I’ll play the safe side trusting things of that
nature.
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Actually, if you have portlights larger than a certain size you’re required
to carry them on offshore races like Newport Bermuda.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Aug 8, 2013 9:22 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:Wow, I haven’t heard about carrying thick plywood portlight covers in
decades. It was one of the old salty-dog tricks we used to parrot in the
70’s. I think I actually made a set once. Sure, if you’re setting out to
round Cape Horn you might do that and a lot of other things, but then again
you wouldn’t be going in a Pearson (I hope). This side of The Cape, I don’t
believe I’ve ever heard of a boat’s portlights being punched out by a wave.
I’m not talking about big, motor-sailer windows, but portlights and
portholes, plastic or otherwise. I ain’t sayin’ it can’t happen. I’ve just
never heard of it happening.To paraphrase Meher Baba, “Don’t worry, go sailing.”
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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From my experience, the hull is about 1/4 to 5/16″ near the toe rail,
bottom of the keel is like 1″ or so (too thin to hold the weight of the
boat), the turn of the bilge where my depth sensor is is like 3/4″ to
1-1/4″. Surprisingly thick. I don’t remember what the stem is, but it’s
really thick.But the transom is surprisingly thin. 1/4″ to 3/16″.
Bob
On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Page Two wrote:
Thanks guys, no I won’t go drilling holes, and I’m pretty confident it’s
thick “enough”, I wouldn’t be buying one if I had doubts. I thought maybe
someone has been at a few thru-hulls and would know….1/4″…5/16″…3/8″
? There are holes all over the boat to begin with. I would hope it’s at
least 3/8″, this is what I want to know. I’ve heard over and over that
newer boats are a lot thinner than when they were building in the earlier
years of fiberglass and I’ve been on delivery offshore watching the fwd
hull flex of an obviously thinner hull than 424.
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The one key thing to remember with this system is minimize side loading
when furling. In other words, stay as close to the wind as possible so
you’re not dragging the sail across the mast extrusion. Bad for the sail,
terrible for the furler. Control the tension. Too loose and it will
bunch. Too tight and you put extra stress on the system.But all in all, you should be able to have trouble free experience from the
system. I’m not sure what maintenance is necessary, but whatever it is,
make sure you do it or you’ll be reliving your first experience soon enough.Your idea of a fixed boom vang is probably the best thing you could do to
assist you. And it gets rid of an annoying line.But this is all hearsay – I’m still old school, slab reefing.
Bob
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Page Two wrote:
The very first time I went offshore as paid crew, it was from Maine to
Antigua, aboard a Bristol sloop with Hood in mast furling powered from the
cockpit. The three other guys, all paid delivery crew were very experienced
sailors. It broke, somewhere south of Bermuda and was deemed unfixable so
we had to reef etc from the mast manually. They condemend this thing and
spewed freely to the noobie, (me) “don’t ever buy such a contraption, stick
with what works). OK duly noted. Another delivery, same route, bigger boat,
same Hood system rig with power, during the largest on record (at the time)
storm off the Eastern seaboard between Maine and Bermuda (we all remember
that….Perfect Storm) It worked spot on and really helped our ass be able
to reef “to a bedsheet” while motoring (good strong engine) into telephone
pole high seas for almost 3 days. Many failures on that trip, including the
wheel constantly loosening from the hub, but the furling did a good job. OK
duly noted. I seem to remember using the manual set-up one other time, no
doubt an uneventful trip.So my question is, knowing some of the possible faults of the system,
topping lift failure, the impossibility, almost to remove the sail in bad
conditions, has anyone any advise of what not to ever do and any techniques
to avoid problems furling. I know that practice makes perfect and hands on
is the best teacher. I guess I’m hoping for any little pushes in the right
direction to help me along. It seems for sure, a solid boom vang will help
a topping lift nightmare, any other suggestions from you roller furler guys?
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Ken, I think what Tor said is about right – our site is more for
discussion. Your best bet is to just ask. If we have already discussed it
we’ll just point you to the thread, or, being old and forgetful start a
whole new discussion.Bob
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Your efforts are duly noted and appreciated, Ken. I expect few of us know
how to search the databases. (Some of us didn’t even know we had searchable
databases.) Most of us just blather on. So, what do you want to know?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Pat? Any ideas?
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 23, 2013 8:33 PM, “Page Two” wrote:With 39 pages of past discussions on this forum ( I know most of you
rarely even go there) it can be a bit time consuming finding info on a
specific subject matter. Not to mention you guys
do…..occasionally……change the subject! But that OK, I’m just saying!
There is a search page and I’m having trouble sorting out how to use it.https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/search.php
When I enter a subject like….”Hood in mast furling”….or “in mast
furling” or “IMF”…..I get results of multiple pages and subjects but not
necessarily about IMF ????? Any hints someone can pass on?I’m trying, as a new P424 future owner and new to this group, to utilize
the site as much as I can before I “attempt” to start a discussion about
something you guys no doubt, have talked about over the past years.Can anybody help me “search”…….before I blather on?
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Oh, no, nothing so simple. It’s directly under the center of the head’s
floor. Impossible to reach from the hatch over the v-drive or the forward
one. At least that’s where it is in my boat. Hull #8.Bob
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Page Two wrote:
Thanks Bob, I guess it’s under the sink and down low or maybe in the
locker stb of the fwd companionway?@madsailor wrote:
The one real bear is the one for the head. I plan to
cut the head floor for
access.Bob
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The one real bear is the one for the head. I plan to cut the head floor for
access.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 21, 2013 5:45 PM, “Page Two” wrote:Tor, I saw this list yesterday and had it mentally stored for future
reference when I get poking about in detail on the new boat. I know the PO
re-did a lot of the plumbing, I just haven’t had the opportunity to know in
detail and to what extent he tried to minimize the amount of thru-hulls.
I remember asking him as we were going through the boat, how many and it
was kind of a blank stare with a tilted head and he said, “a lot”. We have
the additional head forward also…for now! I’ll take it as it comes for
now.As long as they can be gotten too reasonably well. Are there any of the
originals that are really way out of the way and hard to access?
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Terrific idea, Tor!
Bob
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Hi Paul,Welcome back to the Romper Room.
My 424 had been sitting on the hard for unknown months when I bought her.
One of the very first things I did, just before (mostly) motoring her 300
miles up the ICW to another boat yard, was to remove and replace that foggy
portlight in the cockpit sole so I could see through it, and pull the
30-year-old fuel sight gauge and replace it with a new one, readily
available from any marine store for $10 or $15. While those things were
out,
I secured a hose to a long stick with wire ties, gently lowered the end
through the sight gauge hole to the tank’s deepest point, which is at the
forward end of the tank, and used a hand pump to suck out about a gallon or
so of fuel from there. To my delight it came up clean and free of water, so
I figured (correctly, as it turned out) that it was safe to use. If it had
come up ugly, I would probably have pumped out more until it showed clear,
or if it looked too far gone, arranged for polishing.Of course, I had the advantage of a boat on the hard for a long time. Any
water and most dirt in the fuel tank would long ago have settled to the
deepest part of the tank. But even if your boat has been sitting in a calm
slip for a week, I believe you’d find most if not all of the gunk settled
to
the bottom.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Ok. Here it is: A sea chest is either open directly to the sea or an box
of significant size that is connected to the sea through a through hull
valve in such a manner that it will fill and stay filled whenever the
vessel is in the water and the valve, if installed, is open. A sea chest
and manifold serve the same purpose: minimizing through hulls.There are far too many through hulls in the 424. Almost all of them are
low flow systems, such as the head, water maker, deck washdown (at a few
gallons a minute), and foot pump, so a 5/8″ through hull is fine for that
even if all the systems are running. The one under the galley sink is fine
for that. If you were running air conditioning and/or water cooled
refrigeration you’d need a larger through hull.Ok, the box we were talking about way back when was the shower sump box
that was mounted in the bilge just forward of the v-drive. Frankly it was
useless and most owners removed it in favor of a direct overboard pump.
The idea proposed was using that for a sea chest and was rejected because
the walls were considered too thin to withstand the direct sea pressure
(they probably aren’t but would you trust your vessel to ‘probably’?)Anyway, most of us have solved the problem with a manifold like Tor’s or
John’s. Others have just let things be the way they are.I plan on hauling my boat later this summer and removing at least 7 though
hulls. 4 deck drains, 1 sink drain in the v-berth (where I also plan on
removing the non used sink), moving the bilge pump discharges from the side
of the boat to the transom and teeing the shower sump to the galley sink
drain removing the through hull for that. If I could remove more I would.The deck drains will elbow out to the hull just below the cove stripe. I
know there will be black marks. Better that than failed underwater valves.Bob
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Page Two wrote:
Thanks John, I couldn’t open your link but I think I get it. There was
mentioning back in the original discussion about using 6″ PVC pipe and that
would certainly have the volume to protect from the surge load. The
present owner of my future boat is an engineer and has gone through the
boat over the last 14 years, It was my #1 reason to even buy a boat with so
many systems. I’ve been very KISS in my past. Not sure why he located it
back under the port berth next to the engine, seems distant, but I have
faith it’s done properly.
Thanks again,
Kenjohn stevenson wrote:
AFAIK, neither a sea chest nor a manifold were original equipment on the
424s. If there is one on the 424 you are buying it was likely put in bya
PO.
A sea chest and a manifold serve the same basic purpose – provide seawater
distribution to multiple systems from a single thru-hull. The sea chest
is
a tank of a gallon or more capacity that handles surge loads, when more
than one system is drawing water at the same time. This allows the sea
chest to be served by a thru-hull of less total capacity than the sum of
the attached systems. That assumes at least one of the loads is not
continuous (e.g.,, toilet flush, galley sea water pump, etc.). With a
manifold the thru hull must be able to provide the maximum possibledemand
from all systems otherwise one of the system may be starved and not
receive
its full demand.
Here is a description of the manifolds I put into Sarah 10 years ago:
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpgrade2003Haulout.htm.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com
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Hi Paul,
Welcome back! Ok, for the fuel gauge: You can purchase a replacement puck
that fits in the top of the unit. All the whole unit is is a twisted piece
of metal with a float that rides up it. At the top is a magnet. This is
all sealed in the tank. At the top there is a little depression that this
readout device sits in. I replaced mine a few years ago and I think the
new one was like $15.00. I went to an auto parts store to get it.Next, you can change the racor underway but with the engine stopped. You
have an electric fuel pump on your engine I hope so it’s self priming. If
you don’t, then as John said have some fuel ready to top off the filter.
Also, bring some secondary filters (on the engine).Polishing the fuel can’t hurt and if there’s a relatively cheap way to get
it done it may be worth it. If not, just be prepared to change filters
underway. Lots of filters are cheaper than polishing services.Bob
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:24 AM, John Stevenson
wrote:Paul,
Here’s a simple, if pricey, addition you can make to your Racor to detect
filter clogging before it shuts down your engine:
http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/ewUpradeMechanical.htm#Fuel_Filter_Guage
This is a vacuum gauge that replaces the T screw that secures the cover.
You can check this periodically underway and change the filter when it
starts to show a problem. I have one, but I must confess it has never
shown a clogged condition as I change my filters on a regular basis.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Alan wrote:
I’ve never looked at my fuel tank gauge. I strictly go on engine hours.
Fill up the tank, calculate 1 gallon for every hour of engine. You’ll
probably only use about .8 gallons per engine hour, so that gives you a
good 20% safety factor. Unless of course you run it wide-open throttle.
Alan
UnabatedSent from my iPhone
On Jul 21, 2013, at 10:06 AM, John Stevenson
wrote:Paul,
I can’t provide any advise on the tank gauge. I replaced my tank andguage
several years ago, and the gauge orientation on my boat is likely
different
than yours. Actually, I would guess the gauge orientation varies from
424
to 424, even those with the original tank.
IMO eight months is not really that long for fuel to sit, although your
boat has been sitting in a rain forest. Fuel polishing is not a badidea,
but the Racor filters can be replaced underway without problems. Just
keep
a small jug of diesel fuel handy to re-fill the filter bowl after
changing
the filter to avoid having to bleed the fuel lines. Take a lot of
spare
filter cartridges with you.
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Paul Audi wrote:
Hi Everyone,
So I’m a new P424 owner. I’ve actually owned one before and been a
part
of
the maillist, but since selling our last 424, I’ve mostly been a “list
stalker”. You’ll probably get a lot of questions from me in the coming
months as I try to figure out this new boat and all the systems.I’m currently prepping to deliver the boat from the present location
(Anacortes, WA) to Seattle. Hopefully it will be an easy 2-day trip,but of
course, I’m overwhelmed with pre-travel work, new boat-owner anxiety
and
uncertainty with some of the PO’s systems.
Today, I actually have a couple easy questions for the group (or
hopefully
easy). Can anyone provide some information regarding the “fuel gauge
arrow”
(on the old original tank-mounted gauge you look at through the
cockpit
sole). Which way should it point, if the tank is full? If it’s empty?
The
glass is so foggy that I can see the needle, but I can’t make out any
other
markings (ie. F or E). The broker says he knows, but I’m alittle less
than
confident with his answer.
Another fuel question: do you think I require fuel polishing if the
diesel
has been sitting for 8 months? Again, the broker thinks it’s fine. The
Racor looks very clear at this point (from running during sea trail),but
once that tank sloshes around, who knows. I’d love some feedback. The
last
thing I want is a clogged filter/failing engine while transiting
Deception
Pass.
It’s a drop-in Racor (I’ve never had this before). If I had to replace
it,
can I accomplish it underway? Can I replace it without bleeding the
lines
(ie. putting new element in and topping up the filter canister with
diesel)?Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
P
Paul
Talisman, Seattle WA
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Tan lines for just the pfd? You must have presented quite a sight. 🙂
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 18, 2013 7:14 AM, “Alan” wrote:As jack Tyler once said, better to spend $$ on keeping yourself on the
boat, than trying to figure out how to get yourself back on it.
I always have jack lines (1 inch nylon webbing) rigged down both sides of
boat. Use them religiously when ever I leave the cockpit when I sail alone.
Also have an EPIRB attached to Inflatable PFD/harness.
When I was in the Caribbean and working on my all over tan, I had tan
lines in the shape of my PFD. I know ….. TMI.
AlanSent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2013, at 6:45 AM, “” <
> wrote:When a captain I know needs to do a single-handed delivery, he trails
100 foot of line off the stern. He hasn’t had to use it yet but says, “if
you go overboard, the water displacement of the boat’s motion will suck you
behind the boat where you have a chance of grabbing the line.” Tying a
type-four to the end wouldn’t be a bad idea either.Roger
On Jul 18, 2013, at 6:11 AM, Alan wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/AP587e2ddd4d1e4eb193aec19f1b9a8f22.html
Sent from my iPhone
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What about the hit to speed? Ahahahahaha!
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 6:45 AM, <
> wrote:When a captain I know needs to do a single-handed delivery, he trails 100
foot of line off the stern. He hasn’t had to use it yet but says, “if you
go overboard, the water displacement of the boat’s motion will suck you
behind the boat where you have a chance of grabbing the line.” Tying a
type-four to the end wouldn’t be a bad idea either.Roger
On Jul 18, 2013, at 6:11 AM, Alan wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/AP587e2ddd4d1e4eb193aec19f1b9a8f22.html
Sent from my iPhone
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Ah. Bacon is a must aboard Pelican.
🙂
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Jul 17, 2013 10:53 PM, “pete” wrote:Quote:Darn spell checker… Spaniard = aboard…. falling in the head and
busting you head is as bad as peeing all around the headSent from my Android smartphone with a spell checker that is programmed to
entertain you.
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