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Add to that: Those who think they can but really can’t pay much more.
Corollary: know your limitations.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Apr 11, 2013 9:57 AM, “Pete Dubler” wrote:Quote:Those who think they can, can.
Those who are convinced they can’t, pay.If you think you can, or you think you can’t, you are probably right.
Thomas Edison.On 4/11/2013 3:30 AM, Alan wrote:
Quote:Those that can, do. Those that can’t, pay.Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:21 PM, Pete Dubler wrote:
That’s a lot of money to turn a few nuts/bolts and press in a new seal…
Quote:On 4/10/2013 7:48 AM, wrote:Quote:I sent my velvet drive out for service a couple of years ago when a
seal started leaking. I forget what I paid for the service but it was
around $300. A full rebuild might cost twice that. Removal and
reinstallation of the transmission is fairly simple. You may have to slide
your v-drive forward a bit if you can’t manage to disconnect the drive
shaft. This would require re-alignment which is a bit of a pain.Rich
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I’ve been through the manuals for all three transmissions. Velvet drive
can freewheel in neutral, should not be left in gear. Paragon needs to be
locked either through a brake (that’s the transmission the 424 came with a
brake for) or folding/feathering prop. Doesn’t self lubricate. And the
Hurth which can rotate or be locked in reverse. The reverse lock is the
preferred method.On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:47 AM, John Stevenson
wrote:I must admit there has been a lot of inconsistent information on the
subject of free-wheeling Velvet Drives. I wonder if that inconsistency is
because the vast majority of installed VDs have a reduction gear. That
reduction gear may be turned by the free-wheeling prop and could be
damaged. As far as I know all 424s have a direct drive VD with the
reduction gear in the V-Drive. That was the context of my discussion with
the VD experts.Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:34 AM, John Stevenson
wrote:Lee,
Your statement about the Velvet Drive tranny is inconsistent with whatthe
Velvet Drive tech reps have told me. Until engine starts to turn the
gears
in the tranny are not engaged and do not turn. The only thing turning is
the output spline, none of the internal parts are turning.
Anyway that’s what I have been told on repeated inquiries to mechanicsand
tech reps familiar with the Velvet Drive.
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comOn Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Bead Game
wrote:
Those boats that a Warner velvet drive transmission had a prop lock
installed. The Warner transmission should not free wheel as there is no
lubrication when the engine is not runnning.
The original Proplock was hydraulicly deactivated by transmission oil
pressure. This has worked fine. However the company that made it is very
long out business.
I have been able to fabricate my own break pads as the old ones wore
out. Recently the bronze casting began to fail. I installed a
reconditioned feathering Max Prop to avoid free wheeling. It has worked.
Lee Hirsch
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Bob Fine
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Pearson 424 Hull #8
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We’re sorry to see you go, Patrick. I hope you’ll stop by every so often
and let us know how you and Dawn are doing.To Natash and Owen – I hope you all decide to join us and participate our
maillist. All the best to you with your new vessel!Bob
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:20 AM, Pete Dubler wrote:
Will miss you and your wisdom Patrick!
fair winds and following seas,
Pete
On 3/28/2013 11:12 PM, Patrick Walters wrote:
Here’s a pic of the new owners.
http://deepplaya.com/pearson-**424-hull-152s-new-owners-**
natasha-and-owen/Dawn and I will probably fade away from this list. Thanks to all of you
for
all of your support and suggestions along the way. We couldn’t have done
it
without you. We’ll be keeping the DeepPlaya.com domain and name for future
adventures so stay in touch.We’ll be in Honolulu on May 1st!
-Patrick
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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You’re welcome. There was a huge, long discussion a few years ago on the
mailing list about this and this was the takeaway. Glad I could help.Bob
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:That’s great info, Bob. Thanks. I hope I never have to change trannies, but
if I do I’ll get a Hurth for the lock-in-reverse feature, plus the option
of
freewheeling to generate electrical power.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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That’s it! Three Transmissions:
– Hurth – ribbed and squarish. Can freewheel, locks in reverse – uses
ATF
– Paragon – hydraulic – cannot freewheel because of insufficient
lubrication – uses ATF, don’t know about oil.
– Velvet Drive – hydraulic – happily freewheels, should not be left in
gear – uses ATF or 30 wt. oilBob
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 2:16 AM, Patrick Walters wrote:
That’s what they recommended for my high-mileage RV this summer. Funny
thing, it was not with the other oil at the auto store. It was in a special
“more expensive” section. The sales dude said all the truckers used it.-p
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http://www.DeepPlaya.com | @DeepPlaya | W7PEAOn Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Adam Silverstein <
wrote:
Rotella 30 weight. I put that s**t in everything.
Adam Silverstein
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It depends on your transmission. Only the Paragon will use 30 wt oil, I
believe.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 27, 2013 11:21 AM, “Pete Dubler” wrote:Quote:I have heard of folks using 30wt diesel engine oil for everything on the
boat: engine, v-drive, AND tranny. The trannys we use don’t “shift” like
the ones in our cars. They only do fwd, neutral, and rev. So, a clean
tranny (as in right after a rebuild) can use the 30wt engine oil instead of
transmission fluid. I wish I had done this when I rebuilt my tranny
(which by the way is a very easy job) (I do have gear oil in my windlass
though).Pete
On 3/27/2013 7:28 AM, Joseph Steiner wrote:
Quote:I can only find reference to SAE 30 wt, non-detergent motor oil in any of
Google searches.
Joe,
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Rotella at Walmart and Advance Auto will work.
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 27, 2013 9:35 AM, “Joseph Steiner” wrote:Quote:I can only find reference to SAE 30 wt, non-detergent motor oil in any of
Google searches.Joe,
Half Moon________________________________
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I think that’s what I have and it’s gone 10000 miles that way. It may be
lack of maintenance.Bob
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Actually, my Paragon transmission self-destructed soon after I bought the
boat, requiring a complete rebuilt by a specialty shop here. So maybe
freewheeling wasn’t OK for it. (Or maybe it was because the PO never
changed
the fluid. Or both.)Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Hi Tor,
I use the spinning shaft for power – over about 5 knots, I get more than
enough power run the autopilot, instruments, and refrigerator. So I like
that – it only takes about half a knot off the speed and it keeps the
batteries charged.There are, apparently, three different transmissions used on the 424s,
mine, one that locks (I think a Hurth), and another that’s not supposed to
freewheel. If yours was freewheeling when you got the boat I have to
believe it’s ok – you have one like mine. Locking it is optional.I may very well be wrong here, but it seems to me a big three bladed prop
dragging through the water locked creates more drag than one spinning with
no load (I know there’s a load with the alternator – at full speed, it’s
about 16hp). I’m sure there’s some kind of study on this.Anyway, there’ve been discussions about this before.
Bob
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Bob,I gather some transmissions can handle a free-wheeling prop under sail
while
others are damaged by it, presumably because the transmission oil isn’t
circulating adequately when the engine is off. Some transmissions lock when
you put them in gear. I wish mine did! When my prop free-wheeled, as it did
when I bought this boat, the noise spoiled the sailing ambience for me. So
I
installed a Shaft-Lok. I’ve had my share of problems with it, but when it’s
working it’s great.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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When I got the boat it had 90 wt oil. To make my life easier and to only
have two types of oil aboard, I tried 30 wt which increased the high
frequency sound but not much. At least that was my experience. Also, my
prop freewheels so the noise is constant.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 26, 2013 2:14 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:Bob,Do you mean you tried 90W, and then changed to 30W and ” noticed only a
small increase in noise level?”Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Just heavy duty 90 weight gear oil. That said, Walter does not recommend
heavy oil. I replaced mine with the 30 wt oil and noticed only a small
increase in noise level. But try it. It didn’t seem to hurt my drive.Bob
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 26, 2013 1:43 PM, “Silverheels” wrote:Several in this group have recommended using 90W oil in the V-drive,
claiming the heavier oil makes the drive much quieter. Is this any
particular kind of 90W oil, or just oil that says 90W on the label?Thanks,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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That’s probably why check valves are not recommended.
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 16, 2013 7:56 PM, “quent” wrote:Really like Tor’s bells and flashers approach to high bilge water.
However, up here in the frozen north, trapping water in the bilge pump
hose that could freeze with a check valve strikes me as not so good.
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Honestly, me neither…
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Mar 16, 2013 9:53 AM, “Silverheels” wrote:Quote:Well, I’m not likely to ever install that check valve anyway. The
back-surge
isn’t enough to matter and as I said, I can remove it with the manual pump
down to <1/4" when I want to. Life is good.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
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Hi Pete,
Agreed. Pump boxes and instructions generally give performance based on
the lift rather than the length. Some give both. Best hose has smooth
internal walls.Bob
On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 9:11 AM, pete wrote:
Don’t confuse length of hose and head. Head is strictly the vertical
lift, assuming the proper diameter of hose. Any bilge punk on the market
will do. I use a small Whale automatic with their check valve to keep the
bilge dry and a huge pump mounted higher up. Plus have a manual Whale in
the aft wall of the cockpit well and a giant portable edson for doomsday.
much debate on using check valves but if only on the baby pump and since
it is the valve specified for the pump, I have no worries about it.Pete
Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&TBead Game
wrote:what submergable electric bilge pumps on the market today have
adequate head to discharge overboard with about 10′ needed from the bottom
of the bilge?
Any sugestions for mounting a manual bilge pump below the cabin sole? Do
you plumb it in series the the cockpit mounted one?
Lee Hirsch
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Pearson 424 Hull #8
http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com
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I have yet to put the alarms in, and I’m sorry I got the discharge wrong.
I knew it was something not usual.There are the usual arguments against check valves in bilge pump
discharges. Jamming, plugging, whatever. If you do put one in, put in the
one with the rubber diaphragm – the lift checks like you can buy in a
plumbing store ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR ANYTHING BUT CLEAN WATER. They can
jam, corrode, clog and otherwise behave in a less than optimal way. By
clean water, I mean water without particulates in it. The worst that
happens with the rubber diaphragm ones is that the rubber fails and water
from the hose runs back. The check valve should be as close to the pump as
possible. There will be a reduction of output but negligible.Remember when calculating pumping head it is the difference between the
pump suction and the top of the loop (highest point of hose).Bob
On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:…the entire anchorage.🙂
Quote:
Original Message
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