[madsailor]

Hi Linus,

I am not happy with any of the deck drains. There is absolutely no reason for them to drain below the waterline except for looks. The spring when I haul Pelican I am going to either replace them with freeing ports (or really, have the yard do that) or change them so they elbow directly out to the hull. True, there may be dark streaks on the hull, but frankly, dark streaks are better than looking up at the surface of the water.

It's bad enough there are so many through hulls, these 4 don't help matters. If I could figure out a way to get rid of the cockpit ones, I would.

But maybe I worry too much.

Bob

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[madsailor]

I'm pretty sure I don't have the same things here on Pelican. There is the through hull and a 1 1/2″ bronze ball valve with SS balls. I don't like the arrangement much, but they seem newer than Pelican ('78).

The cockpit has 2 – 1-1/2″ outlets added to the aft wall just off the bottom that exit the transom with no valves. I'm not sure I like that, either.

Bob

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 6:26 PM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:

We probably had all original Perko seacocks. We cut them all out using a Moto tool and fiberglass cutting wheels. Perko wanted the price of new Jabscos for just the plastic inside parts. I say replace them all, and the hoses. We also upsized the cockpit drain seacocks to 2″.
Life is short, and the Gulfstream is too wide to swim.
Quent

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Rich,

When in a no-discharge zone you need to have the valve closed and locked. This is in addition to the Y-valve. That means it should get operated several times a year when coming in and out of the Long Island Sound. I may have to get it moved when I haul this year. Sometimes I wonder who thinks or doesn't think about these things..

Bob

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:57 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

I have precisely the same issue. I've never been able to adequately reach the head seacock. The last time I replaced the head hose, I cursed and swore about the guy who came up with that design. This has me thinking. The head is on a short platform that is fastened to the cabin sole in the head. It wold be straightforward to cut an access hole under the platform to reach the through-hull for service. I'd have to remove the head, but that's probably part of whatever project requires that kind of access to the valve.

I have another through-hull under the aft bunk for my refrigeration cooling water. Whoever installed that one put it right against the bulkhead so the valve can't be closed.

The engine cooling water intake seacock used to hit against the strainer before it could be completely closed. This was fixed by replacing the strainer and getting rid of the damn elbow.

Rich

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Original Message

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[madsailor]

The PO on my boat made a nice opening under the sink for the two valves – the drain and the seawater intake for the head. Unfortunately, opposite under the starboard side in an area that is virtually unreachable is the head through hull. I can't get there to operate it fully because my arms aren't that long. What have any of you done with that valve?

Bob

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:03 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

FWIW,
I have only one seacock on Sarah, the one for the deck scupper under the aft cabin berth. All the other valves are ball-valves. The valves I've had installed are all Groco SS ball valves. I'm not sure about the other ball valves. The seacock is nice in that it can be taken apart during haulouts, but I've never had one of the ball valves freeze up. They get a little stiff, but gentle persuasion as always loosened them up.
What I don't know is why I have different type of valves from when I purchased the boat. No history from the PO about replacing valves so I guess Pearson just used whatever they had in inventory at the time.

Good idea about cutting an access hole under the sink. I only had to work on the sink drain valve once and it was a bitch. I think there will be an access hole under there before next fall, when I also copy Bob Fine's cabin sole hatch in the galley.

John

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

FWIW, every season before launch I have all of the seacocks serviced and greased after a NE winter on the hard. This is also a much better way of discovering failure, than a t sea a week after launch. I keep my boat on a mooring. I close all the seacocks Sunday night and open them again Friday afternoon. Ease of operation is to me thus very important. Best to all.

<.. snip>

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[madsailor]

Hi Cada,

I used a Bomar 11 x 15″ hatch. You can probably use a hatch up to about 18″ x 22″, and I wish I had used a bigger one. Below the seat I recently added a 5″ inspection port which allowed me to recover the large-ish piece of fiberglass that fell down there when I cut out for the hatch. John Stevenson had the same issue. I think Rich Carter (Blacksheep) put in the larger hatch.

Bob

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:55 AM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I have been following this discussion,.. does anyone have the specific model number for the door used and what product did you use for the storage area?

Cada
Jubilee

Feb 7, 2009 10:46:59 PM, () wrote:

Dan was asking about this. There is a approximately 18″ between the shower liner and the exterior hull at the height of the soap dish. This is where my faucet for my shower is mounted. There is approximately 12″ to the hull at the height of the shower seat.

-p

---

s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.deepplaya.com/http://www.DeepPlaya.com
Patrick's Sailing Blog | http://www.shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrickhttp://www.shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrick

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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Elaine,

You're talking about the outboard wall – between the aft wall and the bulkhead forward of the nav station is almost nonexistent.

Hi Dan,

I can't get my fingers in there, but it's not zero so if you were to put a bar there you'd need a block between the nav station bulkhead and the shower wall.

BOb

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Elaine Patton < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

We installed a new shower bar with a handheld shower and found all that beautiful space behind the wall. I can measure it later today and maybe post some photos of our “pantry” behind the shower wall. It is a great space to stow anything however, since we race from St Petersburg, FL to Isla Mujeres Mexico, we use it for canned goods.

Elaine Patton
Bel Esprit II

— On Thu, 2/5/09, kalinowski < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

<.. snip>

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[madsailor]

Hi Linus,

For the mizzen sheet I used 3/8″ Stayset. It's a pretty small sail and the line is easy to handle. I have a 4 or 5 part sheet which I can take a picture of if you'd like.

Bob

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:53 PM, sumocean < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I remember seeing a post where someone replaced the old style Pearson mizzen sheet with a boom vang at the aft end of the boom. Does anyone know what the sheet size should be. I can't imagine it needs to be much over 1/2 but less would be hard on the hands when pulling to tighten. I'm trying to bid on ebay and it's hard to tell the size of some of the used fiddle blocks.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Linus

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Dan,

Bristol Bronze makes the replacement Pearson badge and will stamp your hull number on it for you. They're about $35, I think. I purchased one because the plastic one disintegrated. He also makes bronze hinge replacements for all the lazerette covers and so forth.

As far as the rings go, they are probably Perko parts. You may find suitable stainless ones at a good price form marinepartdepot.com. I've replaced all mine with http://www.marinepartdepot.com/new316ststtu4.html – with the addition of some angle aluminum below the hatch. This may work for you, though, if you don't want to go through all the trouble: http://www.marinepartdepot.com/ststflripu.html. I highly recommend these people because they ship by mail (cheap), they ship quickly, and you will never get a better product anywhere for what they charge. I am thoroughly satisfied with them and have put them as a link on my blog, http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com – that's what I think of them.

There are those who make them out of bronze, perhaps even Bristol Bronze. Give them a call http://bristolbronze.com/ – 401-625-5224 – you'll talk to Roger who is very knowledgeable and will talk your ear off if you let him. I spent a number of very pleasant hours talking with him. And you'll know more about bronze then you ever thought possible.

Good luck!

Bob

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 2:12 PM, james bartch < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Aloha to All

looks like the hawaii boys are in full swing. I am in the process of replacing the cruddy stuff in the cabin and wondering if anyone knows where to get replacement hardware. The pull rings in the sole plate access boards are 2 1/2 x 1 7/8 and about 1/4 deep (not dished under the ring and have PLCO 3 stamped on the back) wound lke to replace them with hardware using the existing hole pattern???

also, is it possible to get a replacement Pearson logo in the companion ways looks to be 3×5 or so bronze cast zinc or chrome plated and has the hull number on it.

Aloha to All

Hi Dan!

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Linus,

The PVC conduit is just fine on a boat – it is designed for direct burial, so it shouldn't be a problem. If these are the only wires you run in this, you might even consider the flexible conduit that is available at Home Depot or Lowes. That said, if you are going to use marine grade wire you could do without the conduit altogether and just ensure the wires are supported well the whole way.

I'm not crazy about conduit on a smallish boat like ours because any low spot will collect moisture. Eventually, I think, it will compromise the insulation on the cables. But that's a matter of opinion, I'm sure.

There is enough wood under the cabin sole to let you attach as many wire ties as you like to support the cables.

Bob

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Linus Martinez wrote:

Greetings all

I plan to run wire for charging the windlass battery and for the remote control at the helm station. These wires will run the whole length of the boat and the charging wire is too large to try to run it in the conduit behind the cabinets. Is it OK to use just regular grey pvc conduit secured under the sole to make the run forward to the vberth? I have never seen this used on a boat so I wondered if there is a problem. It seems if the wire is secured and protected it should be OK.

Thanks for the input

Linus

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Adam,

Zinc chromate is extremely toxic. I know because I got heavy metal poisoning with it when I was in the employ of the government (U.S. Navy). Be very careful when using it and make sure you use it in a well ventilated area.

The big question is why you'd use it on your anchor chain and for that matter, why the heat exchanger? Bronze is inherently non corroding and the anchor chain should be galvanized or zinc plated. If you prime with it, you have to paint over it because its mechanical properties do not provide very good abrasion resistance.

Better bet for the heat exchanger is Krylon, the new Rustoleum or any decent engine paint.

But that's only my two cents.

Bob

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:34 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Has anyone used this on 1. Bronze heat exchanger or 2. Anchor chain?

-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)

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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Tor,

I am sure that any mast manufacturer can supply fittings for your mast – they may not be identical to mine because mine are old now, but attaching stuff to an aluminum mast is an old technology well known and well supported. I'd check Rig Rite or Metalmast or a company in Florida who rebuilds spars (JSI, I think). I didn't install the staysail – it was one of the many reasons I purchased Pelican rather than any of the other 424s for sale here. Also, many of them here were in extraordinarily bad condition at exhorbitant prices, but that's another story.

If I understand your drawings correctly, you are building a rather largish gussetted plate. The distance from the anchor well bulkhead to the pad eye isn't all that much, and I, too, seem to have a thick something or other where the pad eye goes through. There is no reason not to use the plate arrangement you've drawn (if I understand it properly) and it will work equally well, if not better. As I said, I didn't install mine so it is what it is. I do know it was all designed by a naval architect so I'm hoping he knew what he was doing. So far, so good.

I could caution you this way: on the gussett, make sure the edges are rounded. If you use your v-berth for anything, you will hit your head on it. Since you are welding this thing, you could change the gussett for a round SS tube, or even weld a tube to the edge for protection.

I have also seen the tiedown go from the deck through the bunk and tie to the stem just forward of the water tank or where the water tank had been. That's valid, too, but makes the v-berth virtually unusable.

Bob

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hey Bob,
A couple more questions on your staysail rig installation (this time through the group in case there are some other thoughts out there):
1) You mentioned that the tangs & halyard block attachments you used on the mast are “all very standard fittings.” Where did you buy them?
2) After considering your under-deck support, i.e., the turnbuckle connecting a foredeck backing plate to a broad plate fastened to the chain locker bulkhead, it seems to me there's an alternative that might suit me better. Would appreciate your take on the attached sketches of something I can have my welder whip up in either 3/16″ stainless or 1/4″ aluminum. My boat has a 6″ wide, flat stringer of what seems like 1/2″ or 3/4″ plywood 'glassed into the underside of the foredeck, running fore & aft from the chain locker bulkhead to the leading edge of the coachhouse. I can feel it distinctly beneath the overhead fabric cover. Hence, my deck backing plate measures 6″ wide in the drawings, flaring out to a wider bulkhead plate to spread that stress. The welded knee connecting those plates makes the whole thing super rigid. I don't see any need for that to be adjustable, as with a turnbuckle. Do you?

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

I went to Bomar, who originally made the portlights. “Oh”, they said, “we just stopped manufacturing that gasket! I may have a few inches around here…”

Then I looked for gaskets. No joy (I wish I had known your chandlery, Linus). I went to McMaster Carr and purchased a 30' piece of rubber, 3/8″ x 3/8″ and hey! Presto! It fits, it will never crush to leaking and it does the job.

Key is make the split at the top of the portlight (know how I know?) and re-adjust the screws on the hinges. Also, make sure the sealing blade is clean and smooth.

You should not need more than a few inch-pounds on the screws to seal the portlight properly.

Bob

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hey, John,

Thanks. No, most of the cuts were made with a 6″ circular saw with a fine blade. The cuts were stopped when the blade hit the corner. The Dremel tool was used to finish the corner cuts. It took about two minutes per corner. The circular saw blade was just the tiniest bit deeper than the thickness of the floorboards.

We used the blue painter's tape to outline the cuts. The Dremel tool is definitely worth the $99.

Bob

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 8:30 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Bob,
Great job & thanks for publishing the process. I've bookmarked it so I can refer to it when I start a similar project next summer or winter (where I don't know).
Were you able to completely cut out the cabin sole with the Dremel tool? I've used a similar tool from Fein ($$$), but I think it would take forever get through the sole with that tool. I think I'll invest in the Dremel.

John

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

As an aside, which may or may not be helpful, here's a link to opening the space under there without moving the table.

http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com/2008/11/there-is-never-enough-space.html

Bob

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Paul
AGM batteries are sealed, so there's no maintenance. I have two flooded
cells in there too, so I must service them once each season. I can slide
the batteries aft far enough to lift them out of the box. Once out, I can
clean out the battery box, wipe down the batteries, and top them off. Its
fairly easy to do but I wouldn't want to do it each week. When the
batteries are stowed, a wooden brace runs across the top of the batteries
and holds them in place. If the boat were to roll over, the batteries
wouldn't fall out. There's about 300 lbs of batteries down there. You
don't want them tossiing around the cabin. The access hatches lock into
position too.

If I had it to do again, I might cut another access hatch in the cabin sole
beneath the galley table and glass the box in there. This would probably
require removal of the table to service the batteries, but that's done each
season anyway.

Regards
Rich

Quote:

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Original Message

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[madsailor]

As an aside, which may or may not be helpful, here's a link to opening the space under there without moving the table.

http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com/2008/11/there-is-never-enough-space.html

Bob

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Paul
AGM batteries are sealed, so there's no maintenance. I have two flooded
cells in there too, so I must service them once each season. I can slide
the batteries aft far enough to lift them out of the box. Once out, I can
clean out the battery box, wipe down the batteries, and top them off. Its
fairly easy to do but I wouldn't want to do it each week. When the
batteries are stowed, a wooden brace runs across the top of the batteries
and holds them in place. If the boat were to roll over, the batteries
wouldn't fall out. There's about 300 lbs of batteries down there. You
don't want them tossiing around the cabin. The access hatches lock into
position too.

If I had it to do again, I might cut another access hatch in the cabin sole
beneath the galley table and glass the box in there. This would probably
require removal of the table to service the batteries, but that's done each
season anyway.

Regards
Rich

Quote:

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Original Message

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[madsailor]

Nevermind my post except for the bonding and ground issue. They all go to the lower bars in the electrical closet near the companionway. All grounds are linked together. Black can be the AC or DC, green is the bonding system. At least in the '78 models.

Bob

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:43 PM, james bartch < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Many thanks for the responce. I had a great survey and during the haul out – checked rudder post, shaft Max prop (polished and shined) cutless checked out fine, did the bottom job with petit trinadad$ and had The surveyor used was the same form the 05 purchase so we ahd some history on the vessel. I am hoping the the problem is recent.

i am pretty sure that the guy Mark Brewer (previous to the 06 sale) was a real sailor and if i could would like to compliament him on his work . I found the vessel was preped as he left it o6 right down the the dried nuts and fruit in the ditch bag…… (ready to curise) almost! That being said i wanted to get to this stray current issue…..

i have not done a detailed search of the site but would like to get some electrical plans if possible …. to start with.

note: the condition of the thru hulls – other than needing to be cleaned was “good” no pink, or signs of failure. shaft and prop was fine. short of pulling them for inspection, cutless was tight.

i like the drop zinc idea, it does not appear that this boat was sailed much in the last two years, the owner did send a fair amount on the engine and i am told the v drive was rebuilt a year or so ago???

now she has a fresh bottom job, zincs at the prop, shaft and rudder post base, hull rubbed out and polished and i am in the process of cleanup all the grounding connections inside but have not found the grounding bus yet so i can trace all the ground leads. she has a 50 amp serice and 50 power coard in to the boat, inverter, ssb and most all crusing gear….

that is about all i know at this point, still hoping the problem is recent but not for sure… we picked it picked her on the survey……….

please continue with your comments,,, aloha from hawaii

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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