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One just sold in MD for 59,000. Ah well, I guess my boat isn't appreciating like I thought… Hahahahaha!
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:48 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:A quick look at the listing indicates an owner's health issue requires a quick sale. Also the boat is in Puerto Vallarta – not a great place to sell a boat.john
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Sad to see one go for such a cheap price. I wonder if there's something wrong with it. A bad W60 engine might drive the cost down $20k. It would cost more than that to replace however. Maybe its a sign of the poor economy. I bet nothings selling.Rich
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rick,
In Pelican (1978), there's a stringer under the floor there. I don't know for sure your stringer is unattached but I'd sure look at it. Between the floor and the stringer is an extremely strong area. I'll stick my head down there today and have a look.
I'd really wonder if the hull was hit there. It's too low down to be really affected by oil canning – the hull there is nearly 3/4″ thick or thicker. Oil canning shows up in the large flats between the caprail and waterline. You'd see cracks like spiderwebbing in the the gelcoat. Also, the framework around the v-berth would be broken away from the hull as others have observed.
But without examining your boat in particular I'm only offering an opinion which may be worth everything it cost.
I would really examine it inside and out quite thoroughly.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich and Tor,
For everyone with a Westerbeke 58, the fuel consumption curve in the engine manual is almost exactly dead on. I forgot you are running the Yanmar. If anyone with the Westerbeke needs a copy of the fuel usage graph, I'll scan and post it.
Tor, your experience with boats of this nature is nothing less than amazing! Until I purchased Pelican, my boats had been racer-cruisers which need constant attention – like sports cars. That used to be great fun but as I get older, my mind wanders farther afield and I need more of a partnership with the boat. Pelican (and Silverheels) fit the bill quite nicely.
I, too, cannot wait to get the cover off and go sailing! If it's just to bring the boat up the Hudson for it's short haul.
Bob
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Tor
The boat speed figures under power are from timed runs in both directions with a clean bottom and little or no wind. I double-checked the fuel consumption figure. Max fuel consumption is about 4.3 gal/hr, not 5 gal/hr. This is based on Yanmar's specifications on fuel consumption at full load. I doubt that I could load the engine enough to consume this much fuel. I don't think I'll ever run the boat that hard for any distance to be able to measure it. I do run the engine hard for about 20 minutes every 10 hrs of operation as suggested in the owner's manual.Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
You will be pleasantly surprised I'm sure. With mizzen, 140% jib and staysail I've gone 7.5 or so on a close reach with no drama.
If you're used to boats that twitch (Hunters, Ericsons, Catalinas, Beneteaus or any of the like) and respond to every little wheel movement and require constant attention you will be either pleased or disappointed depending on your point of view.
If an Ericson or Beneteau is like a sports car, the 424 is like that great big '58 Coupe de Ville Caddy rollin' down the road. Nothing bothers it, nothing sways it. It just barrels along. Well, except for light wind. Then, it just wallows along. But when all the little toy boats are heading for the marina, you'll just be toolin' along with a great big grin on your face. No drama. It takes a lot to knock her off her heels.
But that's just my take on it.
Bob
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I can hardly wait to do it myself!Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi John,
I have the same door as you (some of us seem to have rectangular doors). I was thinking of simply adding 4 slidebolts with blocks underneath to match the height of the door. Maybe not the prettiest thing in the world, but solid and it's only my feet down there…
Bob
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:33 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Tor,
Thanks for the pics. I've got to do something about that foredeck area this year – getting a little sponginess around the old deck pipe. I would prefer not to lose the deck well as it is a convenient place to drop the chain (my horizontal windlass is forward of the locker) and clean it up a bit before dropping it down the deck pipe. However I do like you solution. I'm thinking of a middle solution – cut the well in half so I still have a place to drop the chain before it goes below, but still have enough solid deck to mount a vertical windlass similar to what you have done.What if anything have you done about the locker door at the foot of the V-Berth. Since I went to 275' of chain I find the chain shifts underway and knocks the lightly held door into the berth. Then some of the chain spills onto the berth. I'm looking to come up with a positive latching door with sufficient strength to hold back the chain, but the trapezoid shape doesn't work for that. I assume I'll bet cutting that bulkhead for whatever door I choose.
John
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Linus asked me about my chain locker & foredeck rebuild, so I thought I'd share some photos of it with the
group. Sorry, I haven't learned how to post this kind of thing on the 424 web site, or if these would even
belong there.The attached photos should answer some questions about that project (and could probably generate others). It
turned out that, because I positioned the vertical windlass to pull from the center of the deck to service
both anchors, neither anchor roller chute was lined up properly when the installation was completed. I'm now
changing their angle to slightly-pigeon-toed so the rodes lead fair to the windlass. Also not shown is the
2-piece, removable chain locker divider (I can take a photo of that if anyone wants one), but you can see the
2×4 slot-holders for it in one or two of these photos. With the divider (and the rodes) removed I can squeeze
into the chain locker through the forepeak bulkhead hatch, enough to reach much of the stuff in there for
servicing.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi All,
My normal anchor is a 75lb Bruce with a 45 lb CQR as the second bow
anchor. I think the second port roller was added by the PO.
All chain for big one, 45 feet chain for little guy with the wierdest
line I’ve ever seen, but very strong.I use two nylon snubbers that run to the chocks and bow cleats.
Stern anchor is a immensely strong Fortress 25 with another 200 feet
of chain. Anyone at the meetup this year can attest to it holding 6
424s in 15+ kts wind. I was amazed.On 2/13/09, Silver Heels <> wrote:
Quote:I’ve seen that, John, and it seems to be equally acceptable. I just
preferred spreading the strain on the line over a much greater area with the
long spice. In fact, I made mine almost twice as long as the example in
those instructions, tapering it towards the end.Whatever. If it works, it works.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Mechanics, rigging and plumbing first – then go sailing. The vinyl is ugly but it doesn't mean you can't sail. You should think about removing it one afternoon while anchored in harbor in the Caribbean (or your favorite cruising ground). Don't wait until all the projects are done or you'll never go out!
🙂
Bob
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:01 AM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Wow! Part of the joy of a P-424 is living long enough to sail it.
Quent—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Besides cutting and pulling, 3M makes and adhesive solvent that smells bad but does the job. The downside is it's expensive. But it does work.
After removing the bulk, you could use an even more toxic solvent like toluene or MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) to dissolve both the foam and the glue. It smells rather nice, but melts your brain, literally. Use activated charcoal filters on a mask when working with this stuff and VENTILATE. No joke.
Also, protect your hands and skin. Both are considered carcinogenic and are readily absorbed. But do they dissolve stuff? Man, they sure do.
You may even be able to do this mechanically (I've never tried) with a grinder with a cupped wire brush wheel. Wear breathing filters. All that foam in your lungs can't be good. When down to just the glue, wipe with the 3M stuff.
No matter how you do it, it's messy, smelly, and disgusting (although not like fixing a head at sea).
If you're talking about the vinyl in the head, I think renting a wall paper steamer might work.
BOb
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:34 PM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Any more advice re removal of
vinyl ickiness.-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rick,
That looks as if the stringer inside below the cabin sole has become unattached. That's a seriously difficult thing to fix unless your arms are four feet long.
Bob
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Sorry to come into this discussion so late..
I would like to point out other damage that can occur with flexing of the hull ..
Longitudinal cracks on the exterior hull in the area of the V berth floor.I am aware of three 424's in the Southern Chesapeake that have experienced this phenomenon. Two have been repaired and mine (the 3rd) has not been repaired.
When the hull has a good coat of paint, the cracks can be very difficult to see. These cracks were not identified during our survey.
Attached is a photo of Eclipse when she was trucked to my home for a refit. If you look closely you can see the cracks just aft of the bow jackstand and forward of the hydraulic arm.
'Mobjack Pearl' is a Pearson 424 whose owner made the Bermuda rally a couple of years ago… he experienced the oil-canning phenomenon (including failure of the v berth shelves) when beating on the return trip.
Rick
Eclipse #73On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Its my understanding that later hulls are balsa-cored. I don't know when Pearson switched to cored hulls. In theory, this would provide a stiffer hull. I doublt that it would prevent the oil-canning problem since the forward hull section is flat. I would still recommend reinforcing the forward sections.Rich
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
You knew this was going to happen:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-pig-in-a-poke.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pig2.htm
And now you know where it came from, what it means, where 'pocket' comes from and by inference, the Europeans were not above eating the odd cat.
Bob
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:All very good points, Pat. The problem is you can't check any of those things until you're looking at a sail they made, so it's really only applicable after the fact. Quantum Sails is a known entity with a terrific reputation. You pay top dollar for that and it may well be worth it. Still, you can probably get equal and even on occasion superior quality elsewhere, and for less money, but many other sailmakers fall under the heading of “a pig in a poke.” (Where'd that weird phrase come from, anyway?) That's why I suggested asking overseas sailmakers for a list of US-customer references.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
You know now that I know it can be done I will try to do it….
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Linus Martinez < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:BobMaybe it's just proper sail management!
Linus
<.. snip>
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
That seems like a better idea, actually. I just have the little lights that go on with the pump. Hmmm, maybe I should put the Radio Shack Annoy-the-crap-out-of-everyone alarm in. Good idea! Thanks! ( for the 'high level' switch, that is)
Bob
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Aw, shucks.As to water sloshing over the cabin sole, I've installed (1) a bilge alarm, which beeps in the nav station and lights up LED lights there and in the cockpit so I know when the pump is cycling on, and (2) a high water alarm via a float switch about 14″ above the deep sump bottom, which sounds a car horn that'll wake up everyone within 100 yards (plus its own set of LED lights, nav station & cockpit). If Silver Heels springs a leak, I'll know about it well before it gets anywhere near the floorboards.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
I've never had it happen either in 30+ years either. I've had leaks and so forth but none like that. The requirements for above the waterline seacocks aren't mine – they're ABYC and USCG for inspected vessels – not all of them need it, though. Just the ones that can be under water during the extreme limits of operation. Because the cockpit sole is so close to the waterline there's no way to have the drains high enough. That's all I'm saying.
You are correct about the tacking and all that. The problem is that in extreme circumstances you'd not know until water was sloshing about the cabin sole, I think.
It could very well be that I am overly concerned with sinking. I mean, I've seen thousands of boats and only a couple sank. That's pretty good odds. Even the worst leakers I've heard of have traveled the U.S. coast more or less successfully but the stories the crew tells are not something I'd like to personally experience. That said, of course, life is what happens while you're making other plans so I could have the safest vessel in the world and still experience a whale, submarine, or container strike that makes me really appreciate the life raft.
And in the end, you are also right – it's whatever makes us feel comfortable. I would never hesitate to sail with you even knowing your cockpit drains are seacockless… 🙂
Bob
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hey Bob,Sure, you're right about the above-waterline thru-hulls being submerged sometimes. Still, I believe most boats (including ours) are built without seacocks on above-waterline thru-hull fittings. Seems to me if you start out with new hoses & clamps and inspect/replace them periodically, the chances of one opening up while sailing are slim. In half a century messing around with boats I've never heard of it happening. That's not to say it can't happen, but if it does it's easily remedied, beginning with changing tacks or heaving-to. Next you have to remember where you stowed those big wood bungs!
This is only my take on it. What matters on your boat, of course, is your take. If you'll enjoy the cruise more knowing all waterline thru-hulls have seacocks, then you should definitely install them. I might even do it myself some day, just on the principle that safer is usually better.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
The problem with the cockpit drains are that even if they drain above the waterline they need seacocks because they can be underwater when the boat is sailed to it's normal limits – that's the criteria for whether or not you need sea cocks. Clearly, if they are under water and the hose fails when sailing at a 20 degree heel angle you are about to visit a very wet and nasty place.
So they need them. But if you take the deck drains and right-angle them right to the hull which puts them just below the cove stripe then they are way above water even in the extreme event you are sailing at a 45 degree angle. Just so you know, it is possible but not for long. The 424 has an incredible righting moment at 45 degrees. I suspect it's why it's such a drama-less boat (which is good).
Even in a gale I haven't gotten the caprails under water and I tried.
The only two disadvantages I see is that there will be streaks in the hull (not so bad) and that collecting water for the tanks will be harder, but I've already thought of a solution involving nylon funnels mounted between the lifelines and the coach roof. We'll see how that goes.
Bob
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,Soon after I bought my boat, I sealed up a bunch of her underwater thru-hulls and relocated some of those seacocks to above-waterline discharges. I think my cockpit drains were already above the waterline, though.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
