[madsailor]

Hi Lee,

If you look at my blog (http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com) you'll see where my refrigeration compressor is – under the floorboards inboard of the stove. I made an opening there for access and also so I could install a watermaker.

Bob
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Bob Fine
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Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Pete, I know the won't sense the LED levels. But as Tor so kindly and gently pointed out, I could just look up…

Bob

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:

These do not sense LED level currents unfortunately, but what you really need this for is to know that your incandescent bulb has burned out.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

See Pete? I knew you'd show me something new – that's exactly what I'm trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should have looked that up as someone else since the discovery of electricity probably wanted to sense current as well.
I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths of an amp as my nav lights don't draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

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[madsailor]

Ah, Tor, my friend, looking out at the lights would be easy. Too easy. If you are going to have an indicator light, it should do as much as possible – it should encode information that may or may not be gleaned elsewhere or in an easier manner.

You're right, of course – I'm getting carried away here. I will just dim the lights with a resistor. There are enough real problems for me to deal with on Pelican.

Thanks, Tor, for bringing me back to reality, such as it is.

Bob

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Forgive my old-fashioned simplicity, Bob, but why not just poke your head out of a hatch and look at the lights themselves. If a bulb is burned out you'll know it because it won't be lit even though the light is turned on.

Or am I missing something more profound (which would not be so unusual for me)?

Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:

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[madsailor]

See Pete? I knew you'd show me something new – that's exactly what I'm trying to do – sense current. I suppose I should have looked that up as someone else since the discovery of electricity probably wanted to sense current as well.

I wonder if they will sense current as low as a couple 10ths of an amp as my nav lights don't draw more than that (all LED).

Anyway, this may require more thought…

Thanks!

Bob

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s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Pete,

Actually, they are already wired the way you mention – all I have to do is put a pot on the common ground.

But let's look at another problem, for instance, where you not only want to know when the breaker/switch is on, but you also want to know if the load is actually running as in navigation lights. On high-end yachts and cars, there is a monitor light for each light (the old Corvettes had a fiber optic connection to each bulb, believe it or not) that indicate not only they're on but they're functioning.

Here's what I was thinking: A large power resistor with a very low resistance, for instance 20 watt 1K ohm ceramic with an LED in parallel with the resistor, Not only would the light light but the LED would work as long as the light did, indeed, function.

Of course this depends on the light being less than 20 watts (1.8 amps) and the LED being low enough voltage to work and that there wasn't a dead short. Then the LED is going to be toast with the short. For my nav lights which are all LED this might work, except, of course, it might not. Basically, I'm using the voltage drop across a resistor for the led power.

There may be a better way (and I'm pretty sure there is) but with my limited electronics background it falls under the category of, “Hey, it should work…” Which, by the way, may not be all that far from, “Hey, guys! Watch this!”

Bob

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hard astern…
The LEDs you have must already have a resistor in line. By adding more resistance, you can make them dimmer. A pot would be fine.

plus lead of LED to output of breaker. ground lead through extra resistor then to ground.

(Do not try to put the LED and resistor in series with the load the breaker is handling, if that is what you were suggesting).

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

That's a terrific idea – they are all commonly grounded now! I hadn't thought about that. To be honest, I was thinking how to make the LEDs light when the circuit was in use – using a resistor in series with the load and using the voltage drop across that for the LED's light, but I'd have to replace the LEDs with something like 3 volt ones.

For your suggestion, I wonder if I could use a potentiometer for a variable dimmer? Like a dashboard on a car.

Bob

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email]) > wrote:

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with
the LED to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get
fancy and tie all the LED ground leads together and route that
through a resistor with a switch across it. Then you could have
bright and dim settings. If you do that, you may want to go to a
higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load
of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find
them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red
LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on.
Unfortunately, in 'Tool Time' moment, I ordered the LEDs from

plasmaled.com <http://plasmaled.com> <http://plasmaled.com>. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the
launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin
light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old
LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out,
if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power
panel so they can sleep….

Bob

— Bob Fine
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[madsailor]

Hi Pete,

That's a terrific idea – they are all commonly grounded now! I hadn't thought about that. To be honest, I was thinking how to make the LEDs light when the circuit was in use – using a resistor in series with the load and using the voltage drop across that for the LED's light, but I'd have to replace the LEDs with something like 3 volt ones.

For your suggestion, I wonder if I could use a potentiometer for a variable dimmer? Like a dashboard on a car.

Bob

On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Robert,

Try putting a few thousand ohm 1/4 watt resistor in series with the LED to dim it. I would first try a 3K ohm. You could get fancy and tie all the LED ground leads together and route that through a resistor with a switch across it. Then you could have bright and dim settings. If you do that, you may want to go to a higher wattage resistor.

Pete

Robert Fine wrote:

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on. Unfortunately, in 'Tool Time' moment, I ordered the LEDs from plasmaled.com <http://plasmaled.com>. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out, if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power panel so they can sleep….

Bob

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s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Pete,

I used the labelmaker as well, but since I had a dinghy load of black on white labels, I used that tape. Frankly, I find them easier to read in red light. In addition, I added a red LED to each 12 breaker so I could see at a glance what was on. Unfortunately, in 'Tool Time' moment, I ordered the LEDs from plasmaled.com. When I was moored 1/4 mile from the docks at City Island the launch drivers would use the red light out the port aft cabin light as a marker in the mooring field.

I probably, in hindsight, should have used just regular old LEDs. But I bought 50 of them for $50. The way it works out, if I have guests in the aft cabin I have to cover the power panel so they can sleep….

Bob

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Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Rich,

I guess this is the difference between racing and cruising – I've been flying spinnakers solo for almost 30 years, both poled (end-for-end) and asyms. When I was racing, I had the full crew doing the job – foredeck person, trimmers, mastperson (I say person because they were very often women which I must say made it really hard to concentrate on steering, but of course that's a different issue and I digress).

When cruising, I set the lines approximately, or maybe even a little tighter than they will be trimmed properly so that when the sock goes up, the chute is not likely to flog and get tangled on the forestay. In addition, since it's already overtrimmed the tendency is for the boat to head up and keep the thing from the headstay. Also, I never set or douse it at a marginal direction – in other words, not dead downwind or reaching as high as it will go because both points of sail put the sail either dangerously out of reach beyond the bow or dangerously loaded respectively. I take my time and check each line before raising or lowering the spinnaker. It may take me 15 minutes to do, but I'm not racing… I did that, now I am a total cruiser.

Also, in the words of a wise man, I take it down before I can't take it down and don't put it up if the conditions don't warrant it. Certainly with Pelican, this point is hard to find. All my other boats were quite happy to tell me when they were overpowered. So far, I've found that when Pelican is overpowered there is considerable wind. Upwind in 22-26kts under full sail (staysail included) seems to approach being overpowered but as I am constantly reminded the 424 doesn't do drama.

So, Rich, there are the two schools of thought with spinnakers….

Bob

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 2:30 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Quote:

Bob
As I said, I can set the chute with one crewmember in the cockpit and me on the foredeck. The reverse would work, but getting the halyard and sheets set properly is tricky. I don't trust anyone else to get it right. You need someone in the cockpit to sheet in the lines. As the sock pulls up, someone needs to trim the sheet.

To do it reliably, you need a helmsman. The autopilot won't react to a small wind shift. That makes three. If you want to douse the gennoa as part of the maneuver, you need a second winch monkey. Four makes it easy.

If racing, we need two more. If you are setting it while rounding a mark, you need someone else on the main to control the gybe. You may want yet another person to tail the sheet so that the lines don't get jammed.

This is a big sail. If you don't set and douse it right you can get in trouble. It can wrap around the forestay or get dunked in the water and pulled off the deck if you screw up.

—
Rich Carter

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[madsailor]

Hi Paul,

With the sock, it still stows pretty small. For the 424's the thing isn't all that big and can be squished down a lot. I found that the thing in the sock that collects the the sail takes up more room than the sail, itself, almost.

Bob

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I guess the constant comments I hear about how often, or the hassles, etc. with flying a spinnaker make me wonder if having it on a furler would solve a lot of these issues. I know when we were on Walt's boat sailing to Bermuda this fall, we did bring in the spinnaker a soon as twilight hit and turned on the engine. This was due to the concerns of taking it down in the dark if the wind started to increase. Of course, as with all things on a boat, one has to balance the cost versus the benefits. As a side benefit, furling the sail tightly on itself may help with the storage issue down below.

Paul

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[madsailor]

Hi Rich and Tor,

I flew my asym on my Ericson 34 by myself quite regularly and expect to with Pelican as well. With the autopilot engaged it's a snap to set and douse as long as you do it at a non-critical angle (dead downwind, reaching upwind). I'm not sure why you need 4 people… I actually don't know 4 people I'd sail with…

Bob
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[madsailor]

Oops, I forgot the part about re-drilling. Do that. But as Tor said, for large holes you're good with two coats of epoxy. Make sure the thing going through the hole is well bedded or caulked, too.

Bob

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[madsailor]

Hi Patrick,

Here's what I do:

First, I locate the hole above deck. From below deck, I use a hole saw of the appropriate size – for a 1/4″ hole, for instance, I use a 3/4″ or 1″ hole saw and remove the inner skin and core. That leaves just the outer skin.

Using a good duct tape (not a cheesy one), I tape over the new hole from the bottom. Sometimes, I'll put a piece of wax paper and a backing block.

I mix up some epoxy thickened a little with colloidal whatchamacallit stuff, and using a syringe I fill the hole and wait until it sets. Then I remove the tape or block and hey! Presto! Solid epoxy backing.

You'd probably want to do more than one hole at a time for this, though.

Bob

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I'm putting my plan together for installing a vent in my deck for the composting head and I know about drilling the whole, removing the core, blah blah blah, but in those instructions I think they are assuming a balsa wood core and we have a plywood core. I don't think a bent nail or allen wrench is going to be very effective. My thought was to use the dremel tool and a cutting disc which will work fine a for a big 3.75″ inch whole. But what have you all used with smaller screw size holes were a large cutting disc won't fit in?

Thanks,
-p

---

s/v Deep Playa | Pearson 424 #152 | http://www.DeepPlaya.com
Patrick's Sailing Blog | http://www.shipsrecord.com/blogs/patrick

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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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[madsailor]

Hi Eric and Paul,

I just recently got my spinnaker. It's an asymmetrical one because no pole is involved and it's 175%. I hope this spring to get a picture of it. Whatever you do, though, make sure you get a sock for it, especially if you sail shorthanded a lot.

Your mast has a tang on top with a loop especially for a spinnaker halyard.

Bob

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Hull #8

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[madsailor]

If you're going with the 'run it 'til it explodes' method which I agree with, you may want a spare hanging around somewhere where you can get it easily and quickly, especially if you're going off shore or to places like the Bahamas or something. That's the only downside to that method.

Bob

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:00 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:

I’ve run mine hard for about 6 hours with no water, and it never got more than warm.
(I had saltwater mixing with the oil, so I got rid of the water 🙂

I haven’t had occasion to run it longer but I think it’s probably ok to run w/o cooling.

Besides, if it blows up you just have to get a new one, which is the exact same thing you have to do to ‘fix’ it anyway. I vote Run it til it explodes.

On 12/10/08 4:53 PM, Lee Yonkers wrote :

I pulled off the top plate on the V-drive and discovered that the center forward bolt hole is rusted to the point that the bolt has nothing to hold onto. I see three possible solutions:

1. Keep the plate off and not run cooling water through the unit.
2. Buy a new V-drive
3. Try to use JB Weld to build up the rusted out section and then drill and tap a new hole.

Opinions, criticisms, alternatives and comments welcomed.

Lee
Morning Glory #43

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[madsailor]

Hi John,

I could tell you a story about a $25,000 oil change – it was a sailboat that had had the engine installed with no access at all to the oil drain plug, filter, or dipstick. All the cabinetry around the engine had to be dismantled, and part of the job was to put a drain and fill extension system in. Anyway, the yard pulled everything out, changed the oil and filter and put it all back together in time for the owner to show up – cost $15,000. Unfortunately, they had forgotten the extensions and had to do the job all over to install them.

But I won't tell you that story.

Bob

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:32 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Thanks, Bob.
I considered putting a drain fitting on the sump when the engine was being installed, but changing the oil on the W60 via the dipstick was such a simple process I decided not to do it. Hopefully there is a dipstick extractor that works on this engine.
A supposedly very knowledgeable mechanic told me the Yanmar dipstick tube went to the bottom of the sump. The dipstick itself does not go to the bottom of the tube. Or at least that is what I was told.
I may re-try the 1/2″ ID hose, this time using a hose clamp. Possibly I was getting air in between the hose and the tube.

Haven't gotten to the Bahamas as yet, still in Melbourne. Wx held us up for most of the trip down the coast, forcing us to repeatedly go into the ICW. Finally my crew had to leave and I needed to put the boat somewhere before joining my brothers for Thanksgiving in MI. I had hoped to leave Melbourne today and get closer to the Ft. Pierce Inlet, but a strong cold front is due through tonight. This is the first time I've single-handed the boat in over a year, so I'm looking to start that adventure with settled weather. The cold front is also going to bring strong NE winds for several days, eventually swinging strong out of the E. So the Gulf Stream is going to be pretty rough for awhile. Hope to cross over to the Abacos early next week.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Hi John,

Typically, an oil dipstick tube does not go all the way to the bottom of the sump – it is press fit into the block and ends either just inside or at the inside wall of the block. The dipstick itself doesn't go to the bottom of the sump, either, since all it has to measure is a narrow band of oil levels (once it's too low, it's always too low, even when it gets lower). The best way, of course, is to put a fitting in the oil pan drain and pump it from there. If you have access to drills and taps, drain the oil from the sump via the suction tube, then get the rest out using the drain plug. It'll be messy.

Take the plug and drill and tap it for a 1/2″ pipe fitting and put the fitting in with teflon tape. From that fitting you can run a high temperature hose to a high spot and cap it. When you need to remove the oil, connect your vacuum extractor to that hose and you'll be golden. Or, you can use a piece of copper tubing in the dipstick hole – just make sure you cut the end at an angle so that you aren't just sucking the tube to the bottom of the sump.

How're the Bahamas? Are you having a good time? I'm jealous!

Bob

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 9:13 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:

Like a number of 424 owners I repowered to a 4JH engine, specifically in my case the 4JH4-AE. Other than having the engine block coolant drain cock come loose during a motorsailing passage and dump all of the coolant in the engine pan, the new engine has performed very well. The one problem I'm having is changing the oil.
For my W60 and on my previous boat I used a dipstick vacuum extractor made by Tempo (now Moeller, I think), and it always extracted at least 4 qts from the W60. Using the same extractor I'm lucky to get 2 qts out of the Yanmar, and that requires multiple pumping. With the W60 I just pumped the extractor about a dozen times then went away for 10 minutes. When I came back the extractor contained 4 qts of oil.
With the Yanmar it appears I cannot get the thin tube of the extractor completely into the oil sump, so the tube is sucking air along with oil from the start. I've tried using a 1/2″ ID instead of the insertion hose. I softened it a bit with a heat gun, then forced it over the outside of the dipstick tube. I had been told the dipstick tube goes completely to the bottom of the sump, but that does not appear to be the case because I once more go a lot of air into the tube and even less oil.

Any 4JH owner out there successfully using an extractor system that removes the bulk of the oil?
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com

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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8

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