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Jack,
I don't think I have any plastic in any of my ports. Not sure which 4 aft ports you are talking about. Pearson and POs changed a lot on these boats over the years. Maybe you should identify what type of ports you have that you want to change.My aft ports are fixed, glass in aluminum frames with a gasket seal.
John
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Jack P Clarke < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hello all,
Has anyone changed the plastic in the 4 aft ports, rather than changing the entire port? I don't know if this can be done, but it looks like it's just a gasket holding the plastic in place. If it could be done and replaced with tempered glass cut to size, it would certainly be cheaper and less hassle.
Has anyone explored this possibility?
Jack Clarke
Xanadu IV—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Tor,
The only advantage of the Solent Stay for me is the lack of running backstays. There's enough stuff already on this boat I wasn't looking to add to the complexity. Although, I”m sure Bob is right, the tree trunks Pearson called the main mast on these boats probably doesn't need a lot of additional support, even with the inner stay attached between the spreaders and the masthead. The runners probably don't need to be deployed under most conditions.
The Solent design allowed me to add it to the boat with the minimum of engineering. The deck attachment was copied from Jack Tyler, who copied it from Hal Sutphen, who copied it from the attachment Pearson used for the cutter rigged 424s. Interestingly, Hal did not go with the Solent rig, but an inner stay with runners. So for me the trade off was between being having to furl the genoa when tacking (or remove the stay) and adding the complexity of runners. Although I believe tacking a 135% genoa with the inner stay in place is probably not a thing of beauty. Most double-headed rigs I've seen do not have large overlapping genos, of course they also have much larger fore triangles than the 424 ketch.I may still convert from Solent to Inner Stay if I decide I would like the convenience of the stay sail on a roller-furler. Of course the stock market would have to come back to 2004 levels for the convenience to be affordable.
The lack of engineering support used for the Solent install, was not necessarily a good thing. I think I've related in another discussion that the sail maker I went to for the stay sail knew no more than I what was required. The stay sail he made was too large for its intended purpose – reducing the head sail below that of a partially furled genoa and keeping the CE near the center of the boat. The stay sail I used for two ocean passages was a little larger than my genoa at 40% furled. So when I needed to reduce sail, I had the choice of going on deck and raising the stay sail or just furling the genoa a little more. Guess what happened. That stay sail rarely got used.
John
On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,The solent stay is just as John explained. You can also run double head sails downwind and have the boat balanced pretty well as they're close in size. I know people with them who never use the main jib. Imagine that. I'm guessing, when sailing the Solent, the sail changes are minimized using the device because the winds remain fairly steady.
All the advantages you mention for a staysail are correct – in fact, I have a storm staysail that has a reef point! I would be heartily terrified to need that puppy reefed, I have to tell you. Another advantage of the staysail v. the solent is that managing it in bad weather is easier – it's a smaller sail, it's closer to things to hold on to, and it makes the overall rig more balanced and easier to manage for a singlehander. I,personally, am not that fond of furling a big sail part way for extended periods of time -sure for a quick sail down the Long Island Sound, fine, but for days or weeks even, not so much. Out or in. The staysail can be deployed all the time, except when going dead downwind. Then it's just annoying.
Here's a tip – I got new sail covers. It turns out that the old mizzen sail cover works spectacularly as the staysail cover and I leave the whole mess hanked on all the time.
Bob
On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Ah, thank you John. I really was ignorant of that and I'm glad to learn more. Having the Solent stay removable for day sails makes all the difference, though is seems an awfully long wire to move aside – it must overlap the rail by a few feet – and cumbersome if it carries roller furling.
Offhand I can think of 3 advantages to the staysail: (1) The extra slot created adds power to the rig when flown with the genoa – Bob says it gives his boat an extra knot, (2) you can often tack a genoa thru that slot so the wire can remain in place much of the time, and (3) the staysail as a heavy weather headsail – especially as a storm jib when deep-reefed or replaced with a dedicated storm jib – is closer to the boat's center of gravity, a more stable placement of that sail's force. I'm curious. What advantages of the Solent rig over the double headsail (Bob's muahaha “cutter ketch”) rig caused you to choose that instead?
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
Actually there should be no religion with regard to using a Solent Stay or a double head sail rig with an Inner Fore Stay. Different purposes, different sails. The double head sail rig is intended to be able to set both a Jib on the fore stay and a stay-sail on the inner fore stay. With a Solent Stay you do not normally set both sails at the same time. So I carry a 135% genoa on the forestay roller furler and a very small stay-sail hanked onto the Solent Stay. Off shore I usually have a day to two to consider tacking and having to furl the Genoa to clear the Solent Stay is not a major issue. I use the the stay sail as an alternative to the Genoa when reducing sail. When sailing inshore, where tacking may be an hourly consideration, I remove the the stay sail and secure the Solent Stay on the rail. Tacking the Genoa then is no more of an issue than on a sloop.For me the issue is the primarily the intended cruising venue. If I intended an extended high seas cruise (e.g., a circumnavigation), then I would not have a Solent Stay. I would also not have a 135% genoa. My cruising is primarily inshore, where the Solent Stay is out of the way, with occaisional off-shore or trans-oceanic passages, when the Solent Stay is deployed.
John
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I still say cutter or cutter rigged ketch is acceptable. I will call it that to my, well, for a good long time! Muahahahahaha!On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Joe,
I'm not sure there is an alternative to the Solent rig, which seems to be in a class by itself. What I'm setting up on my boat is a double headsail ketch rig, what some (mistakenly) call a “cutter ketch.” In other words, I'm installing an inner forestay on my ketch-rigged boat to carry a staysail, just as a cutter-rigged sailboat has an inner forestay that carries a staysail. In many cases, this inner forestay requires running backstays to “balance” the forward pulling force it puts on the mainmast when the boat's working hard to windward, since it attached to the mast roughly in between the spreaders and the masthead.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Tor,
No running backs on Sarah's main mast, but intuitively I would guess the wire on the running backs should not be less than the 1/2 the diameter of the inner fore stay that they are counter forcing. So if you have a 3/8″ inner fore stay, I would go with 3/16' or more likely 7/32″ for the runners.
Then again that's just an intuitive guess, no engineering there.
I'm using this on-line session as an excuse for not working on taxes, otherwise I would see if Brion Toss has a recommendation in the Rigger's Apprentice. Once the taxes are filed, I'll the check the book.John
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Yes, the main running backs, for balancing the mast bend of an inner forestay flying a staysail. Thanks, Bob, that's the length answer I was seeking. How did you come up with that? Is it a rigging axiom, or just what makes sense to you? Also, what wire diameter seems right for that?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I agree with Bob & Tor, no harm in applying a sealant to those seams. Really boring when we all agree. Just to be a little of a contrarian, are you seeing any moisture leaking into the lockers under the deck? That is where water will end up if it gets under the cap rail, usually leaking through the self-tapping screws that were used to clamp the deck flange.
I had a persistent leak in the locker behind the sink in the forward cabin. I assumed it was from the cap rail seam or a few of the bungs that had come loose from the screws that hold the cap rail in place. Turns out the leak was from the bow pulpit. When I removed the pulpit a few years ago to run wiring for a bi-color running light I found no sealant at all under the pulpit stanchions. I'm not sure if this was an oversight by Pearson or the PO. There was no sign that any sealant had ever been applied to stanchion bases. After I sealed those bases the leak in the locker disappeared (not before the mildew had destroyed the foam/vinyl covering inside the locker).
So maybe if you don't have any leaks in those lockers this is one problem that doesn't need a fix.
John
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I concur with Tor – a good sealant without the adhesive would be best. If you don't like Life Caulk, there is a good product from SikaFlex.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.comPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Phil,
Bob may be thinking of Epifanes varnish. I varnished my ladder steps about 6 years ago with Eipfanes, then taped off the edges. Then I mixed the Epifanes with their non-skid additive and applied several coats to the surface inside the tape. It has held up since then and it is very comfortable in my bare feet. So far I haven't slipped off any of the steps.John
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:08 PM, pat noordsij < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Ultimate Sole?
– p
On 3/11/09 8:04 PM, Robert Fine wrote:
Hi Phil,
The people who make the really great cabin sole varnish (I forgot the name) also make a non-skid varnish.
Bob
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Philippe Fontaine < ([email][/email])
Hi All,
I have just refinished my companionway laddars. I am hoping to
find something more durable than the 2'' non-skid tape I used when
I last did this job. Do any of you have an approach to recommend
that has good anti-skid properties, looks good (doesn't cover all
the varnish), and is durable?
Thanks,
Phil Fontaine
Aurora—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8
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John Stevenson
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Thanks for the update, Tor.
I'm actually looking for an inn-water berth from much of my winter projects, so it looks like this marina will be in limbo for a number of months. Also sounds like the owners wanted to get rid of a bunch of live-aboards so they could free up the docks for what they expect would be higher rent users, Megayachts perhaps.
I'll monitor what's going on, but it does not sound encouraging.
John
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:John,Well, stories sure do get around. I'll tell you what really happened here, but to first answer your concern about hauling Sarah, yes, Green Cove Springs Marina's dry-dock and storage areas are continuing to function as they have for years. This is an excellent place to store a boat – very safe and relatively inexpensive. However, as big as this place is, still they tend fill up at times. So I suggest you call them at 904-284-1811 to see if they can take you. Speak only to Crystal and tell her you're a friend of mine. No guarantee that'll get you a spot if they're chock-a-block full, but it won't hurt. After more than 2 years here, I'm an official bubba.
Last Tuesday, the corporate owners of this property that includes Green Cove Springs Marina and some slick lawyer up in Virginia declared these ex-Navy piers condemned due to the prolonged deterioration of the steel pilings that support them. Everyone has known about the pilings for a long time. What was so unnecessarily nasty of these absentee jerks was their backdoor move to bypass normal tenant eviction laws, which require a minimum 30-day notice. Instead of giving everyone here that normal amount of time to make other living arrangements, they got some sad excuse for a judge to sign an order forcing everyone to leave these docks in 48 hours – 48 hours, for heaven's sake! – or else they'd tow away any remaining vessels at the owner's expense. Just plain nasty, and totally unnecessary. These are just low consciousness beings with too much money & power and precious little humanity.
A hundred liveaboard boaters suddenly went from 0 to 60, scrambling like crazy to cope, to tear down their dock boxes and work benches, pack up their boats, move their cars & vans and save their floating homes. Imagine the hardship this 2-day evacuation order put on some of the people here, especially those with regular day jobs ashore. One single mom who lives aboard a houseboat is a full time teacher. She could not take off from work to deal with this, her school being in the middle of exam week. The evening of the evacuation order, she was standing out on the pier crying, saying, “I can't cope with this. What are we going to do? Everything we own is in that houseboat. Where can we go?” Her 8-year-old daughter just stared, wide-eyed.
Well, to cut this a little bit short, the deadline came and went and most boats remained, simply because to leave so quickly was for many simply impossible. And then, in the midst of it all, the marina's aging travel life broke some bearing and has been unable to operate just when an awful lot of people needed to be hauled out, myself included. They're still working on getting in a repair part as I write.
The local port authority seems to have taken over the hands-on changeover here and they are much more sympathetic to the marina's and tenants' plight than those pricks up north. They spent the last few days putting in 20 moorings just off the piers so boats that are not leaving at least have a place to go here, albeit without water or electricity. It seems likely they'll leave us in peace here on the pier until the travel lift is repaired later this week and can get caught up with the waiting list of boats heading for dry-dock.
A local news video about the story is online at
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1329229943?bclid=1308023108&bctid=15007856001If you pay attention, you might catch a glimpse of my 424 in a momentary shot about 25 seconds into the report. Ah, famous at last!
Here's the rub. I got to know the divers who inspected the underwater pilings of these piers this past year. We used to chat once in a while during the months they were here working. These two men, who as far as I know are the only ones to have actually seen the pier support structure with their own eyes – the steel pilings that are supposedly about to collapse – told me then in no uncertain terms that while there is substantial deterioration way out towards the end of the 1/3-mile long pier, the much longer section where I'm docked is in pretty good shape, nowhere near the breaking point. This is in sharp contrast to the owner's contention that they had to bypass the 30-day eviction notice law due to “imminent danger.” That is simply not true. They just want things moved along on their timetable and to hell with all the people they're uprooting virtually overnight. Big money, bad people. But you won't hear that from these local news reporters.
This sad turn of events is hard on some folks here. As for me, after my initial shock and anger wore off I decided it's going to be OK – even better than OK. I'll just start cruising a month or more sooner than I had been planning, and that's not a bad thing. I was already scheduled to have the boat hauled out here the first of April to put on fresh bottom paint and take care of a short list of other chores prior to setting sail. This event just moves my timing forward a few weeks, and probably means I'll spend a little more time on the hard finishing up some jobs I had intended to do dockside. When the boat is re-launched sometime in April I'll be officially and at long last cruising aboard the good ship Silver Heels!
They say the marina will eventually get the docks back, new and improved, and that this very special little community will rise again. I hope so. For me, this marks the end of one wonderfully rewarding chapter of my life and the beginning of the next. As is so often the case, when one door closes another opens. Life is good.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Rich,
A number of years ago on a different boat, I used the West System approach to cover a cockpit hatch with teak. Although I didn't need the screws for clamping, I found it the easiest way to maintain consistent spacing between the teak strips. With my very limited wood working skills I needed all the help I could get.John
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:My previous boat had teak grates in the cockpit. No thanks. Dirt gets under there and is hard to keep clean. They're also a pain to maintain. I'm planning to lay down a teak deck in the cockpit using the west system; just the cockpit sole and bridge deck. That's about 25 sq feet.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/installing-a-teak-deck-on-zatara/
I plan to use weights to hold the pieces down rather than screws. The area is much smaller than a full deck and the pieces don't need to be bent to follow a curve.
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
James,
If you've had experience with Teak (or other material) cockpit grates and prefer them to a bare cockpit sole, then just disregard my opinionated comments below.I normally sail bare-footed and I find any kind of grate in the cockpit uncomfortable. When I purchased Sarah the PO had installed plastic grates in the cockpit. I hated them and hated the difficulty they added to cleaning the cockpit. After a few months I removed the grates and gave them to a friend. He put them in his cockpit, then a year later they were gone. I never asked what he did with them. Those plastic grates might be what Tor is looking for, but I don't remember the make. They were about 1' square tiles that snapped together. You could trim the outer tiles with standard wood-working tools.
John
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Speaking of grates in general, has anyone come up with a non-teak shower grate, something easier to keep clean than wood?Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Bob, Tor,
I have a RIB, but I don't paint the bottom as I haul the dink on deck when underway. I don't want scrape bottom paint of on the deck during that operation. After a month at anchor I pull the dink on deck and scrap the crud off the bottom. The anchor wash down cleans that off the deck. I get a few small barnacles, but most of the crud comes off with a sponge or a scotchbrite pad.
I think the bottom paint on Sarah is Trinidad. I don't do bottoms. You don't see a lot of old guys doing bottoms in the boat yards. Some believe it is because they eventually get better jobs. I'm not sure many of the young guys I've met who do bottoms are capable of a better job. This may just be another way of cleaning up the gene pool.
When we finally get an environment-friendly bottom paint I may go back to doing it myself. For now I'll just do my part to improve the gene pool.John
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,
FYI, I just bought a 5-gallon can of International Paints red ablative bottom paint, 40% or 42% cuprous oxide, for $200. Got it over the phone from that other “local source” I said earlier that I'd check with. It's the used boat gear place in St. Augustine, called Sailor's Exchange (phone 904-808-0667). My buddy who works there, Jim, uses it on his liveaboard sailboat and says it's good stuff. I'm even getting free delivery because my neighbor on the pier here just happened to be standing at the store counter when I called.
Life is good.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Bob,
The water in the Bahamas is perfectly clear. I can see small fish on the bottom in over 10' of water. The bottom of my dinghy is covered with growth in about 2 weeks. Better bring a few more cans of that Super Shipbottom if you head this way.John
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,I figured out a little more than three gallons for those guys. Here's what I can tell you from experience: The paint will last 2 years with periodic light cleaning. In brackish water, the only growth is a bit of slime. In full salt water (Long Island Sound), with runoff from Westchester (Eastchester Bay) it lasts 2 years with the only growth being a grassy stuff along the waterline to about a foot down.
I suspect that growth in the Caribbean is less than here – and more biased towards shellfish (barnacles). This is because the Sound and north Atlantic is more heavily loaded with nutrients than the mid Atlantic to the Caribbean (the salt concentration there is much higher – less microscopic life – hence, clearer water).
As a side note, perfectly clear water is dead water. The lakes in northern New York State are beautiful, blue, clear water and totally dead. They used to be tea colored with teaming microscopic life. Acid rain has leached all the limestone away in the soil and acidified the lakes. Lovely to swim in but cold. Dead as a doornail.
Anyway, I could be wrong about the growth down there but would like to learn from anyone's experience.
I expect to dive the boat regularly when in warmer waters, so am not so worried about the growth.
Bob
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,
I just emailed Super Shipbottom for a shipping price to my yard. Using their online formula, I figured on 3 gallons for two complete coats, plus another coat around the waterline. They say that'll keep the boat's bottom clean for 2 years of fulltime immersion. I'd be amazed if it really did.
Not 100% decided to use that paint yet. Still have one more local source to check a little later today.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Rich,
What brand of paint do you use. I prefer paint to the other marking methods as you can see it from the deck when the mark is slightly under water. I'm willing to redo once a year, I'd just like to get more than a couple of trips through the chain wheel.John
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I do this too, but I don’t even cut the tails off.
Works great.On 3/4/09 4:47 PM, Syringa wrote :
I have 350' of 5/16 HT on Syringa;200' in the chain locker and 150' on top of the water tank. We go to Alaska and have a few deep anchorages we use on the way up and down so I like to have a lot of chain and I like to sleep at nights. I have been using colored wire ties I get from Home Depot. I have one blue tie on the 20' link two blue ties at the 40' line and so on. At the 120' link I switch colors and repeat the prosess. I cut the tails off the ties and have no problen with them passing through my Lewmar windlass.
Don
S/V Syringa #124/)+/)+~=:)
—
Regards,
John Stevenson
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Rich,
I considered making replacement cushions out of foam and vinyl convering. I decided it was too much work and the best price I could get to have them made was over $1200. I went with Bottomsiders for about $900. A lot of boat units, but better than spending several weeks handcuffed to a sewing machine.John
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Pete Dubler < ([email][/email])> wrote:
If the foam is good, why not just sew your own new covers?
We have nice vinyl cockpit cushions that were original back in 1979. They are worn and need to be recovered. I took a quick look at what it would cost to redo them and turned white. I think I'll restore them instead. Has anyone restored vinyl cushions like this? If so, what did you use and what were your experiences?
Rich
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Tor,
I've actually had good experiences dealing with RigRite, maybe I just happen to call during her lunch break. They are New Englanders so you shouldn't expect warm & fuzzy. If you want real abuse call the guy who handles distribution for a lot of engine parts (Perkins I think), and everyone who has dealt with him has stories. I can't remember the name of the company of hand, but someone will.I think Pearson may have used several different mast suppliers including Kenyon during the 424 run.
For my staysail fitting I went with the Wichard 9150 fitting that attaches to the inside of the mast wall. I think you are looking for a mast hound type fitting that wraps around the outer wall of the mast. I think the mast section is pretty damn close to an ellipse. I've used that to have several small fittings fabricated and they all seem to fit very flush with the mast wall. So you may not need specifics about the spare manufacturer, just measure the outside width and length of the mast and use those as the major and minor dimensions of the ellipse. I remember finding a couple of hounds that would fit my mast section before deciding on the Wichard. Of course all of that research is on the hard drive of a long discarded PC.The wichard has a relatively short flange which conforms well to the inner wall of the mast. I think you are looking for something to spread that load around the surface of the mast.
So, not much specific help I guess.
John
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks, Dave. If you got information from RigRite, you did better than I. All I got was a surly secretary
whose job it apparently is to keep customers away from the tech support people. When I asked if someone could
tell me who made the spars for the early Pearson 424's, her curt reply was that it would take a great deal of
research to find out, which meant “take a hike, jerk, we ain't doing any extra work for you.” Based on that
bit…, I mean, that woman, it doesn't seem like a company that wants my business.I'm looking for a strongly made mast fitting to attach a staysail stay and its halyard block. Am hoping to
find something pre-made or for which a shop already has the jigs, etc, rather than pay for a complete custom
fabrication.Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Didn't read the thread closely enough. Thought the problem was the available ring pull were too large for the hole in the drawer. Step-drill bit is still a good tool, but may not have much to do with this issue.
John
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 5:15 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
If you need to enlarge a hole, the best drill bit to use is a step-drill bit. Of course one to enlarge beyond 1″ could be expensive, but still a good tool to have in your kit.
John
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Linus:
What is the size of hole – Marinco AFI has teak pulls for a 1.25″ hole. Available in either 5/8″ or 1″ length.
Paul
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