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Hi John,
I have the medallion – I'm looking for the sail logo. I looked on Pat's site but couldn't find it. Can you tell me where yours is?
Thanks,
Bob
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 12:05 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Are you asking about the logo used on the medallion fixed on the boats or the sail insignia?
If the former I believe a group of owners did get new medallions made a number of years ago so someone from that group must have had a graphic or created one. If the later, a local sailmaker might be able to get it for you.
There is also the sailplan logo that a lot of us use. It can be downloaded from my website or Pat probably has a higher resolution image on the P424 website.John
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
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Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Thanks, Chuck!
I wanted to be really sure as they probably haven't been moved since 1978 when they were put in. I've never seen a left hand threaded packing gland, but I've only seen maybe a dozen.
Back in the hole I go with my can of PB Blaster…
Bob
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Chuck Ruble < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Robert, they were nomal threads on Sea Duty. They are both on the same set of threads.
Turning them counter clockwise should remove them from the packing/bearing assembly.On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi All,
I need to repack the rudder packing gland – have the packing but wondering if there are two nuts (one locking) and which direction they turn. I suspect right to tight, left to loose but would appreciate input. I'd hate to be whanging on them in the wrong direction…
Bob
Pelican #8
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Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
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Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
The wire ties will prevent slapping forever. When I did my mast in my Ranger 30, I used wire ties at 90 degree angles every few feet. This forced the bundle to the ends of the long axis of the oval section of the mast and held them there so tightly that I never ever again heard them whang about in the mast. I hate things banging in or on the mast.
Rodd, that is the only thing I'd do differently – wherever you put 1 tie, put two at 90 degrees. Leave the tail on. It'll work like a charm.
My boat has two tubes riveted inside the mast for wires.
Bob
On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rodd,Yes, that's exactly what I used, purchased at Home Depot. After stuffing the tube sections with the mast wires, I put
long tie-wraps around every couple of feet leaving the tail uncut to act as a kind of spring. (Someone happened to
photograph me in the act, attached.) This keeps the bundle from slapping against the mast wall when the boat rocks. It
works very well, but I guess I won't know for many years how well it holds up.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
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Hi Aaron,
That is perhaps the funniest thing I've read in a long time – and the picture is beautiful! Both are so prototypical of the plight of boat owners.
Thanks for that!
Bob Pelican # 8
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hey all, I just posted some pix of my not-yet-complete bilge project.
https://www.pearson424.org/gallery/Bilge-on-Ra
So here’s how this little project went,
I wanted a horn at the spreaders. When I went to install it, I had difficulty getting the wiring in the mast because there was a lot of old crap. So I pulled that out.
And re-wired from the binnacle to the spreaders. In doing that I found oil in the bilge, suddenly clearing up the mystery of the disappearing oil.The original Bilge Pump left several inches of water in the bilge, topped with about a gallon of oil.
So I decided to redo the bilge pump setup as per suggestions from the list, but the shower sump was in the way, so I had to relocate that, (as in I had to rent a sawzall) which in turn meant having to relocate the raw water strainer.
When I removed the sump hose, I discovered that the seacock would not shut off. SO I replaced that.
(I did however talk my girlfriend into crawling into the bilge to help clean it. Again thanks to the list I was able to say “see hun, other admirals do it, it would be ‘weird’ if you refused”)
The best place to put the new sump was occupied by the holding tank discharge. SO I had to relocate that, which meant a couple new hoses.
So I decided to replace ALL of the sanitation hoses. In the course of this, I discovered that the discharge pump went straight to the seacock without a vented loop. Meaning that a small check valve in the pump was all that was keeping the seawater out of the holding tank.
While it was out, I rebuilt the discharge pump, where I discovered that the check valve didn’t in fact close all the way, which suddenly explained why the holding tank was full even if we didn’t use it for a week.
While I had nearly every friggin hose and wire in the bilge exposed I needed to climb into all of the aft lazzarettes, and since I had all that crap out of the boat I did a deep spring cleaning to inventory the boat and add everything into John’s excel spreadsheet.
But then it was dark, and supposed to rain and so I had to put it all back, and now I have to take it back out to inventory it so damned you John and your cool excel spreadsheet!!!!
Or and my boat is a friggin’ deathtrap.
I still don’t have the raw water pump or the sump reinstalled or even found the oil leak yet.
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Fine Software LLC
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Hi Tor,
You don't have a limber hole that goes under the forward water tank? I think I do.
It would drain the forward locker into the main bilge.
Bob
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:That's a viable idea, Eric. Thanks. I'm not sure there's going to be enough water in that locker to justify these big solutions I've been considering. The more I think about this, the more inclined I am to see if I can simply contain the small amount of water that does get into the locker – if not in the locker itself, then at the “top” of the bilge aft of the forward water tank – and then just bail it out once in a while. However, if there were a lot of water entering the chain locker, then your suggestion could work.I do have an idea for ventilating the chain locker, which should help keep it dry and odor-free.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Linus,
That looks BEE-EWE-TEE-FULL!
Bob
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Linus Sumocean < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Guys
it's a happy day in my world ! The beast is setting on the mounts and going to have a day to settle in before it's time for alignment. A few wires and a little fuel hose and away I go, or so I think.
Linus
Looks like it just might work!
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Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
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Aligned properly, what you're talking about works like a charm – big boats (ships) use that method. Usually, there's a funnel like arrangement that allows the chain to be a little off center.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 8:27 AM, Eric Lorentzon < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Rich,
I am new to this so forgive me if this idea seem odd –
It seems like some type of guide for chain heading into the lower locker could help.
If I am invisioning this your chain is passing through the deck into the “upper” locker into a hawse pipe to the lower locker. Would some type of collar (a funnel) hepl to gide the chain as it passes into the second pipe? Or would this just give the chain a “plate” to build up on.– Eric
Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Robert and Tor
I cut a hole in the bottom of the anchor well directly below the fairlead
from the windlass so that the chain falls into the lower locker. Many have
done this, and I see that Robert has done this too. Unfortunately, the
chain forms castles under the pipe, so it tends to bind in the pipe after a
few dozen feet. If I don't feed it below, it does the same thing in the
anchor well under the windlass after about 20 feet. Many of us have done
something similar, so there's nothing uncommon in my installation. I've
been searching for some way to force the chain to fall into the lower locker
without jamming, but I've come up blank. Most of my anchoring needs are
satisfied with less than 100 feet of chain, so I leave half of it below and
lay the other half in the anchor well. The disadvantage with this
arrangement is that it makes retrieving the anchor in a blow a two-person
job. One person at the wheel to run the engine and a second person to
retrieve the chain and pull it back in the chain-locker so that it doesn't
bind up. I have five weeks vacation planned on the boat this summer; much
of it alone since my wife doesn't have as much vacation. I'll have to watch
the weather when anchoring because I may not be able to pull anchor alone if
weather deteriorates. Too bad, since there's a windlass switch at the
wheel.I don't know what your experience is, so please pardon the comment if this
is obvious. My experience offshore is limited to a single passage to
Bermuda many years ago, so I don't consider myself seasoned. Still, there's
a lot to be said for having been offshore in the boat. While I've seen big
waves near shore, there's something entirely different about being battered
for a few hours vs a few days. We got the snot beat out of us on the way
out, but that's another story. I had a chance to see what the 424 can take
and where its weaknesses are. While the boat is generally well-built, the
anchor locker is a weak point. A $6 spray-can of foam insulation squirted
under the toe-rail above the forward bulkhead is all that is needed to keep
water out of the forward cabin should the anchor locker fill, and fill it
will if you head into rough seas. This means that if you have a fairlead
cut in the bottom of the locker to feed chain below, you'll need to secure
it before heading offshore. Clay or even spray-foam insulation would work.
If you have a vertical windlass mounted in that locker, you should expect
the motor to be under water if you get into a rough headsea. Glassing over
the locker hatch is an obvious solution and far superior to just stuffing
foam under the toe-rail; assuming that you've done something to keep the
water from running down the hawser and into your bilge.The other weak points IMHO are:
Flat forward sections of the hull.
Huge cockpit.
Transom chainplate (for sloop and cutter rigs).Rich
BlackSheep #47
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Hi Tor,
I can only give you one tip for fiberglassing because you know to wear protective clothing and all that stuff but you won't. I know you won't, and you know you won't, protestations aside. Here's the tip: At the end of the day when you shower, shower in lukewarm water – the same temperature as your skin. If it's too cold, the pores will close on the fiberglass bits and keep them there. If it's too warm, the pores will open up and flush the bits inside. Either case will result in days of itching. Luke warm water will allow the soap and water to wash the dust away.
How do I know this? It works the same for radioactive contamination. I was a health physicist for a number of years.
I mention the protective gear with tongue in cheek because normally I'll wear it and then at the end of the day there'll be this one last thing to touch up I see after I've stripped the gear off. It never fails.
Have fun, and I sure hope it's not too hot!
Bob
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,I look forward to meeting you, too, and many others from this group. I'd hoped to make the rendezvous this summer, but have decided to stay put and finish the remaining boat upgrade projects on my list, instead. Maybe next year.
I've never removed anchors from their bow rollers for offshore passages. A hundred pounds, even on the very tip of the bow, shouldn't make all that much difference to the trim and ride of a cruising sailboat of any size. The chain – 200' total in my case, and I may increase that eventually – weighs more: 200' of 3/8″ G4 chain = about 300 lbs. Mine will live in the chain locker most of the time, of course, but it would be best to carry that weight farther aft and lower down during passages. I really need to log some sailing time on my boat to know for sure, and that's probably another year off.
Not to worry, though. I'm having fun doing what I'm doing right now, and I'm learning good stuff literally every day. Today it's… FIBERGLASSING! Oh, boy.
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Tor, I have to meet you! The broomstick and chain story had me laughing!
The anchor well thing works if 1; you can seal it for offshore, and 2; you can store your anchors in it (my Ericson fit everything and drained pretty well). The anchors I have are not easy to store. But there are really big limber holes between the lower locker and the bilge…
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rich,My last cruising boat had a vertical electric windlass mounted on a typically solid foredeck (solid as opposed to having
a hatch in it), the windlass deck pipes positioned over the deepest part of a divided chain locker. Whether using a
vertical or horizontal windlass, this is probably the most common foredeck configuration in contemporary, cruising-type
sailboats. This is what I am now emulating on Silver Heels.Having the deck pipes directly above the deepest part of the chain locker enables the greatest amount of chain to pile
up before it reaches the underside of the deck pipe. Still, if you pile enough chain into any locker it will eventually
block the deck pipe. This happened often on my last boat, which carried lots of chain. To remedy the situation, I kept a
2' piece of broom handle on the foredeck, which I habitually stuck into the deck pipe whenever the chain pile neared the
top of the locker when weighing anchor. A quick flick of the stick would knock over the pile inside the locker, making
room for more chain. Of course, there's a point at which you cannot stuff more chain into any locker, but the broom
stick trick at least let me get the most possible into what I had. Knocking over the pile never once caused a chain jam.As for buckets of water getting into the 424's anchor locker in rough weather, what can I say? The standard foredeck /
chain locker is not an offshore design.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
The half and half solution is the one I use – I raise the anchor with the hatch open so I can use my foot to push the chain pile away. It's crude, but it works. I haven't done it in a blow, but in 20 – 30 knots, there's a great deal of running back and forth from the bow to the wheel.
I guess I'll have to figure that out, too. Thanks for the ideas!
Bob
PS. I sail almost exclusively alone.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Robert and Tor
I cut a hole in the bottom of the anchor well directly below the fairlead
from the windlass so that the chain falls into the lower locker. Many have
done this, and I see that Robert has done this too. Unfortunately, the
chain forms castles under the pipe, so it tends to bind in the pipe after a
few dozen feet. If I don't feed it below, it does the same thing in the
anchor well under the windlass after about 20 feet. Many of us have done
something similar, so there's nothing uncommon in my installation. I've
been searching for some way to force the chain to fall into the lower locker
without jamming, but I've come up blank. Most of my anchoring needs are
satisfied with less than 100 feet of chain, so I leave half of it below and
lay the other half in the anchor well. The disadvantage with this
arrangement is that it makes retrieving the anchor in a blow a two-person
job. One person at the wheel to run the engine and a second person to
retrieve the chain and pull it back in the chain-locker so that it doesn't
bind up. I have five weeks vacation planned on the boat this summer; much
of it alone since my wife doesn't have as much vacation. I'll have to watch
the weather when anchoring because I may not be able to pull anchor alone if
weather deteriorates. Too bad, since there's a windlass switch at the
wheel.I don't know what your experience is, so please pardon the comment if this
is obvious. My experience offshore is limited to a single passage to
Bermuda many years ago, so I don't consider myself seasoned. Still, there's
a lot to be said for having been offshore in the boat. While I've seen big
waves near shore, there's something entirely different about being battered
for a few hours vs a few days. We got the snot beat out of us on the way
out, but that's another story. I had a chance to see what the 424 can take
and where its weaknesses are. While the boat is generally well-built, the
anchor locker is a weak point. A $6 spray-can of foam insulation squirted
under the toe-rail above the forward bulkhead is all that is needed to keep
water out of the forward cabin should the anchor locker fill, and fill it
will if you head into rough seas. This means that if you have a fairlead
cut in the bottom of the locker to feed chain below, you'll need to secure
it before heading offshore. Clay or even spray-foam insulation would work.
If you have a vertical windlass mounted in that locker, you should expect
the motor to be under water if you get into a rough headsea. Glassing over
the locker hatch is an obvious solution and far superior to just stuffing
foam under the toe-rail; assuming that you've done something to keep the
water from running down the hawser and into your bilge.The other weak points IMHO are:
Flat forward sections of the hull.
Huge cockpit.
Transom chainplate (for sloop and cutter rigs).Rich
BlackSheep #47
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Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
I wish I could take the credit. It's how the boat came. I'm just going to improve it…
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks for the photos, Bob. You've made good use of that configuration with an approach I hadn't thought of.Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Here you go – Now that I've heard from you and Rich, I'll be making my hatch much more sturdy and watertight. Also replacing the ventilator.
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Robert,I can't quite picture the set-up you described, but I'm curious about it. Got photos?
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
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Hi Tor,
For you? Anything! Expect some soon
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Robert,I can't quite picture the set-up you described, but I'm curious about it. Got photos?
Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Oh, ahh, I see – I already have the vertical windlass (Maxwell 1200) mounted forward of the hatch. My anchors are HUGE and remain chained to the anchor thingy. In the day locker is about 1/2 of all my 300 feet of chain. There are two hausepipes that lead to the chain locker below the day locker. One has the remainder of the chain and the other 300 feet of 5/8″ three strand rode that attaches to the smaller CQR.
That seems to be ok, although I don't like the anchors hanging about all the time. But I don't want to move them, either. (one's a 66 pound Bruce).
Before I go offshore, though, I'll have to make positive locking and sealing on the hatch and replace that stupid cheesy funnel with something a little more watertight.
That reminds me – I have to change the oil in the Maxwell….
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Robert,I'm not getting rid of the locker, I'm enlarging it. Here's why: I'm replacing the old manual windlass that came with my
boat with a big, new, vertical electric Lofrans. The new windlass needs to sit an inch or so above deck level to align
properly with the incoming anchor rodes, so I could not mount it down in the existing locker as built by Pearson even if
I wanted to. Also, a vertical electric windlass has its drive motor below the deck, which takes up space in an already
undersized chain locker – undersized largely because of the day-anchor shelf Pearson built into our boats. I can't use
that shelf for ground tackle. I need a full size, divided chain locker to accommodate 150' of 3/8″ chain plus 100' of
5/8″ rode on one side, and 50' of 3/8″ chain plus 200' of 5/8″ rode on the other, minimum, all fed by the windlass.So I'm building the locker I need and decking it over. Quite the little project. Neat features include removable locker
divider panels so I can squeeze into the locker from the forepeak to service things, a deckwash pump mounted on a
remaining portion of the original shelf, and a large, opening deck plate forward of the windlass so I can access and
make use of the foremost section of shelf, which I have left in tact.I'm surprised it has taken this long for Railmakers to get your mast pulpits to you. Mine are lying on the coachhouse
waiting for me to get around to installing them. Meanwhile, I'm up forward cutting big holes in my deck, grinding
'glass, and generally reinventing the wheel. Fun!Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Tor,
Why are you getting rid of the locker? (oh, and rumor has it my mast pulpits are on the way! Yippee!)
Bob
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I'm in the process of altering Silver Heels' anchor locker and foredeck to accommodate a new electric windlass and some
other stuff. In the process I will be decking over the foredeck solid, like most boats' foredecks are, and dispensing
with Pearson's opening anchor well hatch. Does anyone want the original hatch lid? Mine includes a box-like protuberance
meant to cover a windlass beneath it (photos attached).Tor
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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