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I agree Dan, the PHII and probably the Jabsco as well because the wet parts
with the exception of the flapper weight (which I don’t think the Jabsco
has but I could be wrong) are stainless steel that isn’t affected by acids,
at least weak ones. The Groco, as I remember, is not plastic and rubber
but mostly bronze and brass with rubber seals. Bronze an brass are both
affected by weak acids which is why you don’t see bronze or brass coffee
pots. Also, they taste bad, but that’s not an issue with heads. Grocos
are good heads, and very expensive, but easily rebuilt. If I had one I’d
do everything to keep it, but wouldn’t purchase one if I needed a new one.Bob
On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 1:48 PM, kalinowski wrote:
Madsailor: the head on my Pearson is a PH II. I’ve left white vinegar in
it for up to 4 Weeks when I’m off island and have had no problems. Of
course, there’s always tomorrow. I also have a Jabsco on my powerboat back
in Atlanta. I’ve rebuilt both and concur, the PH II is a better unit.I am also of the school that nothing goes in the head unless you’ve eaten
it first. I keep a small trash can in each head for TP. The designated
“King or Queen” for the day gets to dispose of the contents during head
cleanup.Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
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Pearson 424 Hull #8
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From my experience with the two you mention, the PH II is a far superior
unit. It is easily rebuildable, but goes for years without needing it.
Not so much the jabsco. Besides, the jabsco’s valving has a bunch of
fiddly bits that are not obvious in their reassembly. Imho.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Dec 2, 2012 6:39 AM, “Joseph Steiner” wrote:Quote:There are many different brands of toilets available at Budget marine..the
PH II is by far the most expensive. The Jabsco, for instance is half the
price.
So is the Raritan really better than all the rest..normally you get what
you pay for.
I do see the PH II to be reasonably easy to repair, but I have no
experience with other brands.
I guess the bottom line is a function of good maintenence….flush with
fresh water at times, pour some oil at times, maybe some dilute vinegar at
times..flush well.Thanks for your input!
Joe,
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What kind of head?
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Dec 2, 2012 1:36 AM, “kalinowski” wrote:Interesting. I left my boat several times for a month with white vinegar
in the head. Never had a problem.Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
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Vinegar will destroy brass and bronze – both of which are easily attacked
by acids. The PH II is all plastic except for the weight on the flapper
and the pump rod which is stainless steel. It’s also really easy to
rebuild.But vinegar for short periods does remove the calcium and salts that plate
out on rubber parts. Just don’t leave it in for more than a couple of
hours.Bob
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 8:49 PM, wrote:
…left too long (two weeks), however, vinegar will dissolve or damage the
seals and valves. I have a GROCO & know from personal experience. And
rebuilding one of those is a royal pain which I happily pay them to do
every 3
to 4 years (nine months liveaboard / yr). When this happened after the
vinegar “soak” they sent me the old parts to illustrate just what the
vinegar
had done. Otherwise, it is an great, although expensive, head.BILL TICE~in residence ~*I*I*TREEHOUSE *I*I*I*~ Smith Mt. Lake, VA
In a message dated 12/1/2012 6:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
writes:I always pump some white vinegar through the head and let it set when I
leave the boat for a while. Doing this once a month keeps the “coral
build
up” off of the joker valve and inner workings.Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
Ko Olina, O’ahu
m2f
Read this topic online here:
https://www.pearson424.org/bb2forum/viewtopic.php?p=11764#11764
m2f
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Pearson 424 Hull #8
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Tor,
It’s only in racing you’re required to return with the same number of crew
you started with. Once again, if you must stand, you must clean the head
daily. That’s the penalty for asserting your manhood.Also: I’d rather have women aboard anyway. Then the problem disappears.
Easy solution. Also, they’re easier to look at…😉
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Bob,There was a Jack Nicholson movie years ago in which his dominating wife
made him sit on the toilet to pee, for the same reason you have that
rule on your boat. There was a great scene when, right after the wife
passed away, Nicholson goes into the bathroom to take a leak. He starts
to sit, suddenly remembers that his bitchy wife is no longer there,
begins peeing in the toilet standing up, and then slowly turns around
360° while continuing to urinate, a triumphant grin on his face. He was
reclaiming his manhood and marking his territory. Great scene.Not all guys are as secure in their manhood as you, Bob. They want to
stand. Of course, the captain’s rules are the law, so on your boat they
sit. Just hope one of them doesn’t someday feel compelled to reassert
his manhood and mark his territory.🙂
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Tor got back to you first, but I agree with everything he says. I rebuilt
mine when I bought Pelican in June 2007 and have lived aboard ever since
with no problem. You can pay more for a head and you can pay less, but the
PH II is sturdy, easily rebuildable, and well supported. I wouldn’t
replace it with anything else.I’m surprised you had to rebuild it so often.
As far as men missing the bowl goes, I have only one real rule on my boat –
everyone sits. I don’t care about manly feelings. You stand, you spray –
it’s pure physics. You want to stand you’ll clean the head daily. I know
there’s a lot of people who don’t agree.As Tor said, make sure you flush thoroughly. Mine takes about 6 or 7
pumps. If it’s going to the holding tank, I use fresh water to flush and
only two or three pumps.Also, if you have those white hoses to and from the head, I find wiping
them down with the Clorox wipes every year or so helps keep them from
smelling.I know that John Stevenson has a composting head he really likes – you can
search through the mail list for the links. The big advantage is the lack
of plumbing and stuff. Disadvantages are the need for a small fan to run
(which, truthfully, draws very little power), and dealing with the liquid
waste separately. But he swears by it. So you could look into that.Bob
On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:Hi Joe,I put one of those same toilets in Silverheels 5 years ago and (knock on
wood) it has worked flawlessly so far without a single rebuild. The
Bemis seat pins – those plastic “bolts” that hold the seat to the bowl
top – broke from large crew members sitting there offshore when the boat
was rolling heavily, but I pestered Bemis into sending me a couple of
replacement sets. Otherwise, I’ve been happy with my Raritan PH II.BTW, I pour a dollop of vegetable oil into the bowl every once in a
while, give it a few pumps so the oil coats the inner workings, and let
that sit until the next time I use the head. I also store it that way if
I’m leaving the boat for a while. It seems to help keep the rubber parts
moist and the action smooth. I also rub a little Teflon grease on the
pump’s external shaft occasionally when it starts squeaking.One final note. On most boats the head compartment stinks. Of course,
offshore a standing man may miss a little and splash the area around the
toilet, so that needs to be cleaned up at the end of each trip. But the
long term culprit is simply that people don’t pump enough times when
they flush. It’s really worthwhile to figure out how many pumps it takes
to purge the discharge hose COMPLETELY, and make that the rule. Most
people just pump enough to clear the bowl and that’s why the head always
smells.Good luck,
Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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You have always been my favorite Zen cruiser! And that’s a compliment!
Bob
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:I arrived back on the boat last month with an ambitious Caribbean
floatplan and crew lined up for it. But then it occurred to me that I
have been traveling non-stop, by sea or by land, for the past 9 years
(minus the 3-year boat refit here at Green Cove Springs Marina –
http://www.GCSmarina.com). I suddenly felt that it would be an exquisite luxury
to just stop for a while, to be home and fuss with some non-essential
boat projects, catch up on a bit of writing, and just see what happens
next. So, my plan at this point is to have no plan. I’m afloat in a
friendly place and far enough south that I won’t freeze. Life is good.Silverheels and I may or may not set sail, soon or not so soon, for…
wherever. When I know, I’ll let you know. Meanwhile it is enough just to
be here now.Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Congratulations, Bill on the surgery! It must be a relief, but CHARISMA on
the hard must be, well, hard. Still, you’ll be off on your adventures soon!Bob
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 8:25 AM, wrote:
Quote:Greeting and holiday salutations to you too, Bob,
and like you, wishing I was south this year! The good news is that they
think they got all by basil cell cut out of my head.
Poor CHARISMA is is high, dry, and winterized at Stingray Point Boatworks
in Deltaville.
Happy Holidays to all!BILL TICE~in residence ~*I*I*TREEHOUSE *I*I*I*~ Smith Mt. Lake, VA
In a message dated 11/28/2012 8:14:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
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Have them use epoxy and chopped mat on the inside. They can use whatever
they want on the outside. Also, their excuse is a non starter. Polyester is
just cheaper and easier to work with. Actually just cheaper. Imho.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Nov 19, 2012 5:41 AM, “Joseph Steiner” wrote:Quote:They are planning to use polyester resin and glass mat. Polyester is best
for adhesion to glass mat.
Unfortunately, polyester continues to cure for months, giving off minute
levels of styrene in the process and styrene, even in extremely low
concentration, is easily detected by the human nose.________________________________
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Keep at it the way you are. You’re on the right track. Patience in all
things. Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Nov 17, 2012 4:18 PM, “Adam Silverstein” wrote:Is in my basement in the early stages of deconstruction. Has anyone
dismantled one of these? There is a parts manual with an exploded view
available, but no shop manual.I am hesitant to keep smacking it with a hammer to remove the splines, but
I can see no taper that is working against me. Using sockets and a piece
of wood as a drift. Very frustrating.And that 30-year old Shell proto-grease is insane. Its more resistant to
cleanup than anything I’ve even encountered.
Adam Silverstein
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It’s not necessary to ground. It’s a weak point of the original layup. If
your boat has been blocked incorrectly you could already be in trouble
regardless of grounding.I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Nov 17, 2012 7:52 PM, “mary e. springhorn” wrote:Quote:Wow! Makes me glad I’ve have never grounded.
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Hi Joe,
You can repair the keel from the outside. I’ve done it. It takes some
effort and a lot of grinding, but here’s how you do it:1: Make sure your bilge is dry and no water is going to get into it while
you’re working.2: Grind a wide and deep ‘V’ from the bottom in along the keel – you’ll see
the crack that’s causing the leakage and you’ll follow it both forward
until you’re at the ballast and aft until it runs out. Make the ground
surface as wide as possible.3: On the outside of the keel, grind in about 1/4″ along the keel up to
about 4″ above where you just ground the ‘V’. In cross section your ground
out section should look sort of like this: _ _/ if you get my
drift.
_/
_/4: Lay a single layer of cloth such as mat on the inside of the bilge. Do
a nice job and make sure it doesn’t sag into the notch too far (a little is
ok).5: Stop. You will want to start on the outside. Don’t. Let the inside
cloth set up. Really. If you don’t you’ll be very unhappy. Trust me, I
know.6: Rough up the outside of the cloth you laid in yesterday and wipe the
whole mess with acetone or MEK. Your choice.7: Cut progressively wider strips of mat and lay them in from the outside.
They will stay up as you wet them out. Do four or five at a time then let
it start to set up. If you don’t, they will get too hot and will boil and
bubble. Keep building it up until the bottom of the keel is full and
level. You’ll be putting in over an inch of material.8: At this point, you’ll probably want to let it all kick. It’s going to
be cocktail hour anyway. Stop here for the night.9: Sand, grind and shape the stuff at the bottom of the keel. The ‘V’
should be filled. The next and final step (other than painting) is to lay
cloth in the outside indent you ground that goes up 4″ on either side.
When I did mine, I alternated layers so the from just past the center on
the port side I ran it up to the top of the starboard side. Then the
opposite, then back, and so forth. It should take 4 to 6 layers
altogether.10: Finally, after that sets, sand smooth and fair and prime or barrier
coat, and paint. You’ll have a stronger keel than the boat was
manufactured with.Hope that helps.
Bob
On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Joseph Steiner wrote:
That’s right..a cracked keel..I nudged a coral reef in the Bahamas 5 years
ago and now a survey shows a bit of seepage of water from the bilge as she
sits on the hard.
I wonder if anyone here has had to repair a keel.
Mine has some epoxy ( and maybe some cement too? ) in the bilge ( which
has cracked and that is now a problem as it has trapped water) which
ultimately will cause fiberglass breakdown..an expensive fix to take out
the epoxy/cement and repair the keel from the inside. I’m told just
patching from the outside is a band-aid which will need repair again in 2-3
years.Does anyone have experience with such a problem?
many thanks,
Joe Steiner
s/v Half Moon
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There’s that, too…
Bob
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Jack P Clarke wrote:
Quote:Just jumping in on this conversation, I have the Pro furl and one of
the good points is that it’s an open drum. If you have a snarl or
jam, it’s easier to clear it.Jack
XanaduOn Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Silverheels wrote:
Quote:That sounds like good advice, Bob, and it may make my old Harken furler
easier to operate. I’m still concerned about its age, which is
uncertain. The PO may or may not have told me it was 15 years old when I
bought the boat at the end of 2006, which puts it over 20 now. If I only
sailed locally, I suppose I could keep using it until something breaks.
But I go offshore and hang out in places where there is no indiginous
word for “roller furler.” This replacement is more along the lines of
preventative maintenance. Am I crazy?Tor
Silverheels, P-424 #17
http://www.silverheels.us
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Hi Tor and John,
The thing I really like about the ProFurl is that the important parts are
made of titanium. Very light, very tough, and no corrosion. The thing I
don’t like is the same thing Dos Locos didn’t like – the anti-wrap device.
But once up, I’ve never had a problem with it, so it’s a aesthetic issue.As far as working by hand: I’ve found that the biggest reason they can’t
be worked by hand is that the furling line is led improperly. It took me
two years to figure that out – very often (all I’ve seen, anyway) the last
block before the furling drum is attached to the bottom of the pulpit
stanchion, so the winding force is actually at an acute angle to the
drum. By moving the block up so that it pulls perpendicularly to the drum
gives two advantages: the first; the drum wraps perfectly and allows more
line to fit without jamming allowing a larger sail or more wraps when
furled to prevent auto unwind when in storm conditions, and the second;
because the force is in the direction you want it to be it’s easier to furl.Before I moved the block up, even in modest winds (20kts or so) it was
difficult to furl and I had to start with the winch. After moving, just
slackening the sheet a bit will allow me to hand furl without a problem up
beyond 35 kts. So, before you spend a bunch of money on a new furler, if
you have your last block near the cap rail, move it up – give it a whack
and see what you think.Bob
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:36 PM, skipmac wrote:
I just bought a new furler. Read all the research and comments from
sailors. Practical Sailor also did a test on the new generation furlers a
year or so ago. Got down to Hood or Harken and I decided on the Harken.
But it’s still in the box and I haven’t installed it yet so can’t give any
first hand report on how well it works.Also, I have to admit that a year later I can’t remember why I picked the
Harken over the Hood but I’m sure it was for a very good reason._______________________________________________
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Do you have a link to it?
I’m not being terse. This is from my mobile.
On Nov 8, 2012 3:50 PM, “kalinowski” wrote:For all who long for more convenient access to the built in shelf of the
old Pearson ice box, there is hope! I found a sliding shelf unit at the
Simply Human store that fits perfectly! The unit has a base that can be
mounted on the old FG shelf and consists of a very nice chrome (SS?)
sliding shelf that has adjustable dividers to fit your whatever. And it
was reasonably priced.Dan Kalinowski
Jolly Lama #135
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