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This means for Super Shipbottom paint, you'll need two gallons. I've found due to it's thinness that it generally covers more than advertised rather than less than advertised.
Bob
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
With my roller application of the bottom paint I am able to get 2 full coats with one gallon plus one quart (5 quarts).
You need to roll it on rather thin, and of course need an extra coat around water line and leading edge of the keel. Two gallons is more than enough, but you are usually better off buying two gallons and saving the lefttover for the next paint job, rather than buying the much more expensive quart sizes.
BTW for those curious, specs show us as having 372 Sq ft of wetted surface area.
Rodd Leeds—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi John,
What kind of paint on your hull? Do you have a RIB? What kind of paint on your dinghy?
Thanks,
Bob
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:23 AM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,
The water in the Bahamas is perfectly clear. I can see small fish on the bottom in over 10' of water. The bottom of my dinghy is covered with growth in about 2 weeks. Better bring a few more cans of that Super Shipbottom if you head this way.John
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Tor,I figured out a little more than three gallons for those guys. Here's what I can tell you from experience: The paint will last 2 years with periodic light cleaning. In brackish water, the only growth is a bit of slime. In full salt water (Long Island Sound), with runoff from Westchester (Eastchester Bay) it lasts 2 years with the only growth being a grassy stuff along the waterline to about a foot down.
I suspect that growth in the Caribbean is less than here – and more biased towards shellfish (barnacles). This is because the Sound and north Atlantic is more heavily loaded with nutrients than the mid Atlantic to the Caribbean (the salt concentration there is much higher – less microscopic life – hence, clearer water).
As a side note, perfectly clear water is dead water. The lakes in northern New York State are beautiful, blue, clear water and totally dead. They used to be tea colored with teaming microscopic life. Acid rain has leached all the limestone away in the soil and acidified the lakes. Lovely to swim in but cold. Dead as a doornail.
Anyway, I could be wrong about the growth down there but would like to learn from anyone's experience.
I expect to dive the boat regularly when in warmer waters, so am not so worried about the growth.
Bob
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,
I just emailed Super Shipbottom for a shipping price to my yard. Using their online formula, I figured on 3 gallons for two complete coats, plus another coat around the waterline. They say that'll keep the boat's bottom clean for 2 years of fulltime immersion. I'd be amazed if it really did.
Not 100% decided to use that paint yet. Still have one more local source to check a little later today.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
I figured out a little more than three gallons for those guys. Here's what I can tell you from experience: The paint will last 2 years with periodic light cleaning. In brackish water, the only growth is a bit of slime. In full salt water (Long Island Sound), with runoff from Westchester (Eastchester Bay) it lasts 2 years with the only growth being a grassy stuff along the waterline to about a foot down.
I suspect that growth in the Caribbean is less than here – and more biased towards shellfish (barnacles). This is because the Sound and north Atlantic is more heavily loaded with nutrients than the mid Atlantic to the Caribbean (the salt concentration there is much higher – less microscopic life – hence, clearer water).
As a side note, perfectly clear water is dead water. The lakes in northern New York State are beautiful, blue, clear water and totally dead. They used to be tea colored with teaming microscopic life. Acid rain has leached all the limestone away in the soil and acidified the lakes. Lovely to swim in but cold. Dead as a doornail.
Anyway, I could be wrong about the growth down there but would like to learn from anyone's experience.
I expect to dive the boat regularly when in warmer waters, so am not so worried about the growth.
Bob
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Bob,
I just emailed Super Shipbottom for a shipping price to my yard. Using their online formula, I figured on 3 gallons for two complete coats, plus another coat around the waterline. They say that'll keep the boat's bottom clean for 2 years of fulltime immersion. I'd be amazed if it really did.
Not 100% decided to use that paint yet. Still have one more local source to check a little later today.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich,
I'd be interested to see what you find at the epoxy place. Does anyone know how many gallons of bottom paint we should be using? I think I'm going to take the easy road and get it from the Super Shipbottom place. As much as I love the copper… I may try to copper foil the rudder, though, as an experiment.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
If I may jump in here for a moment, one must realize why copper works and what the effect of photo-degradable tetracycline would be on ocean life. Copper and copper oxides are distasteful to marine life. The fact that our paint is loaded with it and is ablative is because we don't want the expense of coating our bottom with copper sheeting. As a matter of fact, using copper sheets from Home Depot (not the cheapest source) you could coat the whole bottom in copper and do it for less than 10 years of bottom painting with ablatives. Not only that but you'd get a wonderful ground plane for your radio. The downside is that it's hard to bond with the hull and you would have to maintain it when hauled.
Tetracycline, like any other antibiotic, will in some form or other get into the environment. However, it does that already through elimination from animals and people being treated (what is not metabolized is passed through the urine). There are arguments that flooding the environment with antibiotics is bad for us because it makes the environmental microbes stronger and more resistant to antibiotics (Nietzsche said, “What does not kill you makes you stronger.” Or, Vat doesn't keel you makes you strunger.) That said, it tetracycline is photo-degradable, at the depths we leach it (no more than 7 feet or so) the strength of the sun should do the job.
From the perspective of our leaching of chemicals into the environment, compared to industrial, farming, and municipal waste being dumped we're less than a drop in the bucket.
Bob
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Thanks for that additional input, Pat. Pretty dry reading, but the only reference I could find to tetracycline in the first report said, “Oxytetracycline is photo-degradable in surface waters as has been reported for Tetracycline (Peterson et al. 1993).” I assure you I will do everything in my power to keep my boat's bottom at the ocean's surface, where the chemical can photo-degrade. The second report you referenced, “Impacts of Tetracycline on Planktonic Bacterial Production in Prairie Aquatic Systems,” does not address ocean waters at all and the sentence you quoted from it refers to river bacteria.
In fact, I agree with your sentiment, truly. I don't want to hurt the ocean. Tetracycline may (or may not) effect oceanic planktonic bacteria up to some unspecified distance in unknown concentrations. It certainly affects the adjacent organisms that build barnacles, because by all accounts they don't on boats employing that treatment. So, to some extent, do cuprous oxide and all the other really deadly stuff created by Dow Chemical and loaded into the various antifouling paints we use, not to mention acetone, epoxy, polyurethane, engine emissions, and so on ad nauseum. All these things leech into the environment and “impact” the life around them. Tetracycline may, too, but is that really “leaching antibiotics into every ecosystem (I) enter?” On some very localized level, yes, it obviously is, but I do not believe the coral reefs of the Caribbean will die because I passed that way.
In my opinion, the only way we can remain impact-free is to avoid owning a boat (or a car or, for that matter, a house) altogether. All these things are horrible polluters in a hundred different ways and contrary to nature. I truly wish it were otherwise, and I have actually considered the option of returning to a (nearly) impact-free life as an ascetic, a path I followed for some years a long time ago. For now, however, I'm a sailor and must do my best to keep my boat going.
As I said, I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly, but I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between deterring and even killing adjacent bacteria with one chemical or another.
Anyway, my original question was whether or not anyone among us has tried tetracycline in their bottom paint. I take it the answer is no.
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Ok, for the bronze shaft and prop, use a spray zinc paint. It works very well. I forget the brand, but it's available at West and Defenders. There is something else that I've found ok in northern waters that may work. Believe it or not, a heavy, sticky grease, like cosmolene or lithium wheel bearing grease schmeered on the prop and shaft work. Make sure not to get the grease between the zincs and shaft. The zinc spray paint with grease is even better. This year I'm going to try some teflon grease.
As far as bottom paint goes, there's a product I'm dying to try – it's from http://www.epoxyproducts.com/copper4u.html – a low V epoxy with copper added. First, I love the copper color bottoms. I tried the Petit Copper Bottom paint in the 80's and found that the color had nothing to do with actual copper. In fact, as bottom paints went, the critters loved it. They grew better on that paint then they did on unpainted surfaces.
However, ablating talc (the thickener and color holder in most bottom paints) doesn't seem like a terrific solution either. The copper and epoxy sounds really good for a multi-year hard bottom paint. I may try that this year. The downside, of course, is that you need to 1. get rid of all your current paint and 2. your bottom will end up green no matter what. That's what copper does.
From experience, though, this paint http://www.supershipbottom.com/PAINT%20SPECS.htm is pretty good – lots of copper, ablative, easy to apply (like water), and relatively inexpensive as it goes a long way. I've used it with two coats full hull, four around the waterline and the bottom is good for two years at least, depending on the amount of scrubbing. It's a medium hard ablative. It sticks to any previous bottom paint. The downside? It sticks to any previous bottom paint – the sovlents are really, really toxic and you need to use breathing masks to apply it. The good thing is you can do all the bottom in one day.
Finally, there is this ecologically sound bottom paint from http://www.epaint.com/ – if you are really that concerned, then you won't mind spending $250/gallon for the paint. I can't vouch for its effectiveness, although I have to say that there are some good reviews.
I have a friend that takes a gallon of the cheapest bottom paint he can get, dissolves a tube of silicone in a quart of xylene, mixes it with the bottom paint and applies one coat every year. When the boat comes out of the water every fall, the bottom is clean as a whistle with only a little scum on it. He has the bottom scrubbed maybe three times during the summer. I can also tell you that adding hot pepper powder to a bottom paint doesn't work.
Regards,
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Adam,
You'll probably find that Rustoleum makes a color that's real close. If not, take a paint chip with you to Pep Boys or your local hardware store and see if there's anything like it. Heat won't be a big problem as the engines run pretty cool. Not like a gas engine.
Bob
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 12:16 PM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Is that color or price? Am I gonna see this at pep boys?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Mar 4, 2009, at 12:11 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Ferrari Red
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:40 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email]) ([email][/email])> wrote:
What's the closest thing to Westerbeke red?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: () ()
For additional commands, e-mail: () ()—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Ferrari Red
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 11:40 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
What's the closest thing to Westerbeke red?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: ()
For additional commands, e-mail: ()—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Ok, here's a paint I've used up in the north and is recommended for the southern waters – it goes on like water, has terrific coverage and uses far less than any of the 'commercial' bottom paints.
http://www.supershipbottom.com/
The only downside is that it requires breathing apparatus to put on – the solvents are extremely toxic. I've used it with great success up here.
It will bond to any bottom paint including vinyl paints. It dries very quickly, so two or three coats are possible in a day. It lasts through a year's scrubbing (every three weeks), and at the end of the year it's gone so you don't have to worry about putting on 1/8″ paint every year.
Highly recommended.
Bob
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Joseph Steiner < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I've been happy with my Trinidad SR paint…3 years here in the caribbean and no problems..easy to scrap and very good if you are at anchor for ant length of time. The ablatives don't work well unless you are underway, then they don't last as long as the hard paints…IMHO.
Joe,
Half Moon— On Fri, 2/27/09, () < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich,
I'm happy to. Here they are:
The part is PLC206B; CATCH, ELBOW BURN. BRASS They are $10.10 each – more than the Perko, but far nicer. http://www.cgedwards.com/phoenix/206.jpg, or for the whole page, http://www.cgedwards.com/phoenix/phnx3.html
Regards,
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich,
I've installed two already and they are an exact match, holes, finish and all.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Pete, these are the same extruded and sliced catches Adam mentioned, just a different price. Rockler hasn't got the best prices for hardware.
Follow this link for a close up of the catch I'm talking about: http://www.cgedwards.com/phoenix/206.jpg, or for the whole page, http://www.cgedwards.com/phoenix/phnx3.htmlI will know about the screws fitting the holes this weekend.
Regards,
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Adam,
That's true – but it doesn't look like ours – it's extruded and cut. The one from C.G. Edwards is cast, exactly like the ones already installed, at least in the older boats.
I wanted to match them, so that's why the extra $3.50 or so. But truly, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter all that much. (but I can be really picky)
Thanks,
Bob
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:46 PM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Every 10 years or so, Yung-Mi earns her keep. Try Rockler (http://www.rockler.com), solid brass elbow catch, $6.29@. Now I have to wait another 10 years.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Feb 25, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi All,
I'm missing a number of elbow catches on drawers (especially in the galley which is really annoying in boisterous seas). I hate the crappy Perko ones, even their brass ones. But I found a supplier of the catches that match the ones we already have:
The part is PLC206B; CATCH, ELBOW BURN. BRASS They are $10.10 each – more than the Perko, but far nicer.
Regards,
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich,
There are times for the dual anchors off the bow and times they're not recommended. I've anchored in the Hudson River where there can be great current and it gets very choppy. In addition, due to the nature of the mountainous banks wind travels straight up and down river. In a big blow (25+kts) the boat at anchor will sail a great deal and be extraordinarily uncomfortable when it becomes broadside at the extremes of each swing. By placing the anchors 90 deg. apart and backing down on both of them, the motion becomes much kinder and the boat ceases to sail about the anchors.
When the current changes, the boat will move up between the anchors so any twists will be at the top.
It is a method well worth practicing because it is useful. Like some of the odder tools in our toolbox, you may not need them often but when you do…
Bob
Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Welcome to the forum, Scott! Nice to have you aboard!
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Scott G < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi All,
Hope this works and makes some kind of since. This is the first time I have posted on any forum. I've been reading over your shoulders(posts) for about a year and a half, have learned much and would like to thank you all for all the groovy info.
I bought Hull # 53 (yumi) just over a year ago,that name will change soon. Have done a little of the work that she needs and will be living aboard a month from now,at most.
I suppose that I should add this comment to the post about Cheap/Great…,but am here now so.
I diden't see the purchase info of my boat in the list added to that post.
I was very Happy to pay 68,500. for my 424 a year ago and am still feeling good about it.
I don't actually have any questions at the moment and if I continue to type I will just contiue to ramble on with out adding any thing constructive so…
See Ya, and again THANKSScott Gesdahl (#53)
Emeryville, CA—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
