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If you go to anything, go to the graphite/flax packing which will run without water.
Bob
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Chuck Ruble < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:When I pulled the V-Drive out over the winter I took the time to replace the stuffing box hose. When I took it off it appeared to have begun to delaminate when viewed from the ends. I also bead blasted the entire packing assembly. It cleaned up beautifully and can now be adjusted by hand. I only need the packing wrench to snug up the lock nut.My success with the teflon drip free packing is another story. I'll probably go back to standard flax.
On 8/9/08, Rich Carter < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:I assume that you have a stock packing gland and not a dripless retrofit. Adjusting the packing nuts and replacing the packing material is normally considered a maintenance project that the owner should be able to handle. You can purchase a pair of short adjustable pipe wrenches that fit the packing nut on the 424. Sorry, I don't have a link handy. If you have questions about how to do this, I'm sure the group will help out.Regards
RichQuote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Chuck,
How expensive and hard was it to install the RV20? Is it a direct replacement?
Bob
On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Chuck Ruble < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Dan, I was inspecting my V-Drive a few weeks ago. I found a chunk of metal in the water jacket. It was part of one of the fins in the jacket that create turbulence in the raw water chamber. I grasped the remainder of the fin with a thumb and forefinger and it broke off. I tested another and it did the same. This leads me to think the upper portion of the drive housing is now suspect.
It does weep some oil, very little and is noisy. I just finished a rebuild and am replacing the V-Drive with the newer RV20 unit that no longer uses raw water to cool it. Cast iron exposed to salt water for 30 years…. go figure.As for the W58, if its running well. Don't mess with it. 2500 hours is few on a slow turning overbuilt industrial engine. You might consider having the injectors serviced, but I wouldn't bother if its running clean (no soot on the stern) and smooth.
Chuck
On 8/10/08, kalinowski < ([email][/email])> wrote:
How do you know when the V-drive is getting long in the tooth and needs some TLC?
Dan Kalinowski
(New to Pearson 424 Ketch and v-drive contraption)
S/V Swift—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Dan,
If it's making noise or vibrating, if there's water in the oil or no oil at all, or if the engine turns but the propeller doesn't…
All kidding aside, those drives should last the same time as the engine – they're industrial v-drives that are designed to give long service life with minimal maintenance. Look for hot running (over 130 or 140 degrees F) or unusual noises.
Bob
On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 5:03 PM, kalinowski < ([email][/email])> wrote:
How do you know when the V-drive is getting long in the tooth and needs some TLC?
Dan Kalinowski
(New to Pearson 424 Ketch and v-drive contraption)
S/V Swift—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich and Thatcher,
We (Pelican) rounded Orient Point and into a gale and near gale (30-38kts) with blinding rain. With the staysail and mizzen, on a close reach, the boat behaved like a lady with no other drama than the drawers in the galley opening.
That must have been the northern part of your twister storm. Just the other day there was a waterspout in Oyster Bay! I never remember them being around here.
Very surprising and very disturbing.
Bob
On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Thatcher A. Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:RichDon't know what's going on but that's the Third funnel cloud out of a squall line this year at 3MH. The first dragged my boat and an 800 lb. Mooring into the channel bar in June.
Thatcher A. Stone
via T-Mobile
Original Message
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Generally speaking, an normally aspirated diesel should last about 9000-10,000 hours between major rebuild. Turbo, half that. Do an oil check (I forget the website) and check for smoke – the W68 may produce gray steam on normal running (actually any diesel might) – no white or black smoke.
Bob
On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 8:14 PM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
ditto -“….ain't broke, don't fix it.”
best wishes~~~ ~ (_~~ (_~ ~ ~ fair winds ~ ~ (_
Capt Bill Tice, aboard s/v CHARISMA
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
A bit off subject, but if you had a Monitor already mounted, would you change?
Thanks,
Bob
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your offer of assistance, and your input. I agree with you about the davits/windvane use not
normally coinciding, but I think the windvane will still encroach on my davit-slung inflatable's
forward-facing pontoon whether or not the vane is in use. The Cape Horn will be much better in this regard
than most other vanes because it normally mounts quite close to the transom. Still, it must necessarily take
up some space back there. My dinghy is deflated and stowed at the moment, so I have not had a chance to
measure exactly how much room there is between it and the transom. Anyway, as I said it's not a deal killer
for me.I confess I'm always looking for a deal on boat gear. I believe 18 or 20 of us did all right negotiating a
favorable bulk order price on mast pulpits a few months ago. (I finally mounted mine and am very pleased with
them.) If there are a number of us in the group who ultimately decide to go with a Cape Horn windvane, perhaps
we could band together again and negotiate ourselves a group rate. Anyway, it wouldn't hurt to ask if it turns
out that several of us are ready around the same time.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Hi Rick,
Let me think about that. It could be that the engine is, indeed, running hot and needs to cool down before it's easy to start. It could also be that the starter motor's bearings are going bad so that it requires higher starting currents when hot. You can purchase a really inexpensive infra-red thermometer from Radio Shack that you just point and press a button to get the temp -it works from like -100 to + 500 or something ridiculous. The starter shouldn't get much warmer than the engine block, especially if it's disengaged. The engine block should get to around 180-200 degrees anywhere you point. The transmission might get warmer. But everything should be well below 250 degrees.
Be careful as 140 degrees is scalding. It does sound temperature related.
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Bob,
Last season the 8D was working with the engine cool or hot, although it progressively became sluggish at cranking a hot engine. The 8D finally gave up the ghost back in June of this year and I replaced it with the group 27. It had difficulty starting a hot engine from the get go. It starts it fine when the engine is cool.
All of my house bank batteries are of the 6V wet cell variety and the starting Group 27 is a 12v wet cell.
Thanks
RickOn Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kidding—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Rick, there are several reasons a group 27 won't start the engine, especially if it did last year – one, it's low on water or was at some point, two, the engine is running hot and you don't know it yet, and three, the engine is still 'tight' from being new. That's the least likely. I use a group 31 for my start battery on a W58. But if you have a charging system that expects a fancy battery (like AGMs ) and you're running flooded batteries you may be cooking the group 27. It will show up as bad long before the big 8Ds show up the problem.
Hope that helps…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 7:02 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Rick,
I assume that during the time the engine is cooling down your are back in your slip and the battery charger is charging the start battery.
If that is the case I would look at the Duo Charge system you are using to charge the start battery when the engine is running. I'm not familiar with this system, but it may be similar to the battery combiner I use on Sarah. Mine is wired the opposite of what you appear to have. The combiner connects the house battery to the alternator output once the start battery is above 13.3VDC. The original combiner on Sarah failed in 2006 on a passage from Lagos, PT to Gibraltar. The result was all the navigation instruments and lights went out in the middle of the night. Similar to what you do for your start battery I manually combined the batteries which restored power to the instruments and allowed the alternator to recharge the house battery.So it is possible the Duo Charge system has failed and is not providing sufficient charge to the start battery. A quick test would be to check the voltage of the start battery after the engine has been running for a few minutes. If the start battery is being charged the voltage should be 14VDC or more.
A fully charged Group 27 should be adequate to start the engine. I'm temporarily using a Group 27 to start my Yanmar engine with no problems.
John
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Rick Dugger < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Has anyone experienced this situation and have recommendations?
Eclipse (#73) was repowered by the PO in 1999 with a Westerbeke 63C.
Last season I did not seem to have this issue. It appears to have developed this season.
The engine start battery, an 8D, was replaced early this season because it was old and got to the point it wouldn't start the engine cold or hot. I replaced the 8D with a Group 27.When the engine is cool it cranks quickly and starts quickly.
When the engine is hot (engine has been run for a while, turned off) the start battery really really struggles to turn the engine over (it cannot turn the engine over fast enough to start)… I have to combine my house bank with the start battery to get it started.(I use a Balmar MaxCharge 612 to charge the house bank and a Balmar Duo Charge to keep the engine start battery charged.)
Do I just not have a big enough start battery?
Is the starter suffering from some heat related disorder?
ThanksRick
Eclipse—
Regards,
John Stevenson
http://www.svsarah.com—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Phillipe,
I tried that – and I found I'm too clumsy to get a good swing without hitting something that really shouldn't be hit (like my knee or hand).
Even if that works, I strongly recommend a good set of wrenches that do the job. In the Navy, hitting nuts on pipes and shafts was highly frowned upon. Not that it wasn't done, mind you, but it was frowned upon….
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:38 PM, Philippe Fontaine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:An alternative to large wrenches: After lubricating nuts and threads with WD 40 or PB Blaster some light hammer taps on a cernter punch placed near the end of a flat on the lock nut will usually loosen it. I can usually tighten the packing nut adequately by hand and then re-tighten the lock nut in the same manner that I loosened it.
Phil Fontaine
Aurora.Quote:
Original Message
<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Thatcher,
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|299222|316451&id=157993
is the pump I have, but I installed a foot pump to replace that and the refrigerator drain in the little space between the garbage door and the forward face of the cabinetry:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|299222|316451&id=223941
Problem solved…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:The old one attaches with three screws. The new one has a single nut on the back holding it down, so even with it real tight it can twist a bit. I used to pump like a jackass to get the thing primed. The new one just shoots water out. No real ‘issues’ with it, I think the connector might have been a different size, but that’s easily fixed.On 8/4/08 10:13 AM, Thatcher Stone wrote :
Quote:Thanks to all on this, particularly Aaron and Robert. I have the replacement now. Yes I had metal and see the new one is plastic. I will not risk the O rings being the same and ordering parts, and anyway my metal one is corroded, original and now gross.Any standard issues on this pump and the sea/ icebox connections I should know about? Thanks all.
PS, if you ever see three men in a walker bay rowboat in three mile harbor without gas or outboard, it’s Adam.
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I tried both – to no avail until I got the right wrench. It may be that mine was never maintained. The worst case scenario…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:53 AM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Regarding loosening the packing gland, try turning the gland nut first, not the locking (lower one) nut. Once the top nut is loose, the locking nut will move more easily.
Quent
Clairebuoyant #132—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Ok, now I see – my rudder shaft and main shaft are the same size. 1.5″. So the packing for both is identical. My friend got the batteries from Interstate – 6 V golf cart batteries. http://interstatebatteries.com
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Hi Bob–I don't know about changes in diameter; however, my prop shaft is 1 1/2″ and takes 1/4 ” packing. The rudder shaft is larger diameter, so it takes larger packing, and I used 5/16 with no problem(ie no leaks!).
hey, any news on golf cart batteries? I'm going cruising in a couple of weeks and need to replace two 6 volt batts.
Thanks!
btw, how did you make out with the bad weather the day you left?Rodd
Quote:
Original Message
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Hi Rodd,
For the rudder you have a 5/16″ packing? Mine's a lot smaller. I wonder if they changed over the years or perhaps I measured wrong…
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:same as the shaft, but need one size up in packing size– use 5/16 in. rings–3 rings.Rodd Leeds
Original Message
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Can you send a picture? I know the one I have can be purchased at West Marine. It's a Whale hand pump. But that gives me an idea for my new salt water foot pump – I can put a 'T' to the refrigerator. Thanks!
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I have a hand pump over my galley sink which is connected to a valve inside the cabinet below, selecting salt or the icebox.
Does anyone know where I can find a replacement?
Thatcher A. Stone
Wavemaker—
Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
Your data on the web your way. No kiddingPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Adam,
There are, indeed, a trick or two. First, if yours hasn't been maintained, the cheap crappy packing gland wrenches you can buy at West Marine or where ever are totally useless. I mean, don't even bother. You're wasting your money. Go to http://thesailinglife.blogspot.com and look at the wrenches I bought at Home Depot – they're Rigid offset wrenches like pipe wrenches except the jaws are flat so they don't screw up the bronze. They work like a charm – I've been dealing with this problem for months, trying to figure out how to get the locking nut loosened and the cheap wrenches twisted and turned and bent and went out of size and basically made my life an upside down knee cracking, knuckle whacking hell.
Go spend the 30 bucks. It took one of those wrenches, a spritz with PB Blaster, and two taps (and I really mean 'tap') with a hammer and the job was done. Locking nut loosened. Ran all the way down, undid the packing nut, ran locking nut all the way off, used lithium grease (as in the grease for boat trailer wheel bearings) schmeared on the threads to prevent further corrosion.
If you don't need to repack (which is probably the case if no maintenance was done), just run the locking nut way down, tighten the packing nut until the leak stops (but not so tight that the shaft is hard to turn), and run the locking nut back up snugly. Not tight. Just snug.
If, however, the packing nut has been run as tight as it can go, you'll need to remove all the packing and re-pack. When I do it, I'll use 3/16 graphite impregnated packing because it can run driplessly, not necessarily on the rudder post, but on the main shaft. Be aware that the rudder post's top is below the waterline so that if you remove the packing you'll get water in the boat. Towards that end, cut three pieces beforehand using the clear part of the rudder shaft as a form. Make sure the cuts are at 90 degrees and when you install them, make sure the cuts are 90 degrees offset from the last packing ring.
That's about it. It's a pain in the but to do, but if you're not to large a person, it's fairly easy. Really, get the wrench. That's the biggest boon to the project.
Good luck!
Bob
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 5:37 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
mine leaks. how are these packed, and are there any tricks to repacking?
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
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Bob Fine
Fine Software LLC
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