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Hi Rich and Tor,
I'll talk to my alternator shop, Tor – that should be easy-peasy.
Rich, you're also correct – the 85 amp alternator isn't heavy duty – but 85 amp alternators work in cars and trucks for dozens of years in all kinds of inclement weather, road salt, dust and other destructive environments where they are almost never given any consideration or maintenance. I am of the humble opinion that these alternators are more than sufficient for my needs. Besides, they are easily replaceable or rebuildable anywhere in the world for reasonable prices ($250 each). Also, my engine compartment is clean, dry, and typically cooler than a normal late model car's.
Marine alternators are specifically designed to not spark. In a gasoline engine's compartment that's a good thing, but in a diesel's not so important.
Since the frames and brackets I have are already installed, I'll stick with what I have and just get a new regulator that I can set up with AGM batteries, which is really the point. I didn't realize you could take a regular alternator and use an external regulator.
As far as splitting them between banks, I have a Xantrex Freedom 2000 that handles all the power and charges the engine battery with a thing called an 'Echo Charger'. My banks are wired so that three 4D's are the house bank and one 4D is the engine starting/emergency battery.
Here's a tip – don't mix battery types. It really doesn't work…
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Rich and Tor,
Well, this is an issue that's been bothering me for some time now – As I've mentioned, I have two alternators – one, recently replaced Delco 85 amp and the other original, probably Delco, 65 amp on the other side.
They are hooked up in parallel to the common positive and grounds just like you'd expect alternators to be hooked up. However, when the batteries are low, it seems the 85 amp alternator takes alot of the load – so much so that the belt squeals.
I know this isn't right. What I want to do is figure out how to replace the internal regulators with external ones and balance the loads properly. I don't believe just hooking them up in parallel does the job.
If anyone has information about that or links for that, I'd be much obliged…
Thanks,
Bob
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Hi Rich and Tor,
General rule of thumb: 100 amps is the limit for a single belt altenator.
Bob
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Rich,Well, I got most of that. I was told that you can set a top-end limit with the smart regulator so that even a 160-amp alternator will never put out more than, say, 120 amps (or whatever limit you set), and would then not be so hard on belts. On the surface this might seem like a waste of output potential, but in this configuration the alternator will never work hard enough to get more than lukewarm and will probably last forever. Or so I'm told. Personally, I know nothing.
Of course, the problem with putting on such a large alternator is that it can't possibly fit my existing bracket, and it weighs a lot. I'm looking for the happiest compromise between charging power and ease of installation. There is added value to being able to bolt my original Yanmar alternator back on instantly if the need arises.
I will look at the Powerline package you recommend, and will also check out the Napa/Xantrex approach for a comparison. From what I've heard so far, it seems like the latter approach might cost half as much as Powerline. That's a point to consider, but not necessarily the decisive factor. I realize there are some apples-to-oranges differences here.
Thanks again,
Tor
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Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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I have Pelican hauled forward (an decent sized lift can do this) with the sling on the bow as normal, just forward of the keel, and the aft sling even with the aft end of the coach roof – it puts all the engine weight on the aft sling.
Many yards are unable to place the aft strap between the rudder and prop easily. But whatever happened, get your insurance company involved.
Jeff Lazar is very good – I recommend him from experience.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hey! Not for me, for my girlfriend, if I ever have one.
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 6:40 AM, alan P < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Softener? pussy!— On Mon, 11/17/08, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:<.. snip>Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Bucket and a plunger! That's the part I was missing… the plunger bit. That would make it ever so much easier! How long do you plunge before putting the softener in?
Bob
On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 6:28 AM, Paul Lefebvre < ([email][/email])> wrote:
“I was wondering if my 1800 Watt inverter could carry the load.”
That will probably depend on the surge capacity of the inverter and if this machine likes to run on a modified sine wave or not. It will be interesting to hear how Quent powers his.
I found a place near Toronto that has these units for $150 CAN (about $120 US). If I am in the area, I may pick up one to try. There is something to be said about the simplicity of a pail and plunger though. The spin dry ability is probably what interests me the most on these units. I noticed they cost about the same as a quality clothes wringer. Of course a quality clothes wringer will last a lifetime, while these Chinese made units definitely fall into the disposable appliance category.
http://www.dailycollection.com/dailycollection_007.htm
Paul
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
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That's one nice thing about the 424 – it laughs at 25+ kt winds!
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:45 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
picture forthcoming. I am in agreement re: flying billowy things near that giant fan.
given my proclivity for broken boat racing in 25kn+, and seeing those that have been added, I will try to add the Solent this winter. I have a big asymm. it has 20 patches and looks like an old sock, but whatever.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone (“trust everyone but cut the cards”)
On Nov 15, 2008, at 8:09 AM, “Robert Fine” < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Adam,
Send Tor a picture of your frame and stuff that mounts and controls your wind generator. I'm pretty sure you don't want a mizzen staysail with that arrangement. It looks like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm leery of such things. I am, however, impressed with your wind generator – it's big, it's powerful, and it's really quiet. It would be the one I'd get if I weren't thoroughly afraid of high speed, sharp, rotating machinery.
If you want to increase the speed and power of the boat simply, add a staysail. Not only does it increase speed on normal days by 1 to 1.5 knots but it provides a mounting point for a storm jib. When you have to shorten sail, you won't be flying the mizzen staysail.
For light air, add yourself an asymmetrical spinnaker, and go to town!
Bob
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email]) ([email][/email])> wrote:
the turbine is mounted on a tubular frame fwd of the mizzen just above the spreaders. the brake is controlled by a line leading down to just above the winches. I shimmy not; neither do I lasso. yea and verily. some models can be controlled by their own magnets too. mine bumps on using the controller and can be reversed to slow it.
tor: configuration meant shape and size, ie, symmetrical or not; luff length. head-to-sheave or shorter. I have seen pictures, but if I want the sailmaker to cut me one, I'd prefer to give something more specific.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email]) ([email][/email])> wrote:
On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I'd like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don't
want them spinning, but I'm not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya'll might be taken some of them thar lasso'n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Adam,
Send Tor a picture of your frame and stuff that mounts and controls your wind generator. I'm pretty sure you don't want a mizzen staysail with that arrangement. It looks like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm leery of such things. I am, however, impressed with your wind generator – it's big, it's powerful, and it's really quiet. It would be the one I'd get if I weren't thoroughly afraid of high speed, sharp, rotating machinery.
If you want to increase the speed and power of the boat simply, add a staysail. Not only does it increase speed on normal days by 1 to 1.5 knots but it provides a mounting point for a storm jib. When you have to shorten sail, you won't be flying the mizzen staysail.
For light air, add yourself an asymmetrical spinnaker, and go to town!
Bob
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
the turbine is mounted on a tubular frame fwd of the mizzen just above the spreaders. the brake is controlled by a line leading down to just above the winches. I shimmy not; neither do I lasso. yea and verily. some models can be controlled by their own magnets too. mine bumps on using the controller and can be reversed to slow it.
tor: configuration meant shape and size, ie, symmetrical or not; luff length. head-to-sheave or shorter. I have seen pictures, but if I want the sailmaker to cut me one, I'd prefer to give something more specific.
-Adam Silverstein-iPhone
(“trust everyone but cut the cards”)On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
On 11/14/08 1:51 PM, Silver Heels wrote :
I'd like a way to physically, mechanically tie off the blades when I don't
want them spinning, but I'm not going to shimmy up the mast to do it, or even
climb up on ladder steps underway if I can avoid it.Who ee doggy, looks like ya’ll might be taken some of them thar lasso’n
classes there cowboy 🙂
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Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Thatcher,
I'm wondering, if you had the chance now to replace your windmill with solar panels, would you do it? Are there times you wish the thing to be more quiet? Which wind generator do you have? I know the KISS one is very quiet, and the Marine Air one sounds like a jet taking off.
Maybe it's time for me to give up my racing background where I worry about weight aloft and just go with a wind generator – the big thing that stops me is that if there is a way to get something caught in the blades, I will do that very thing. Knowing my own limitations helps me stay out of trouble…
I, too, have replaced all my lighting including navigation lights with LEDs – I replaced the bulbs in the masthead with bulbs from Dr. Led. The tricolor has three colored led gangs and the anchor is just the one white light.
I added new nav lights on the pulpit and stern rail with appropriate LEDs in them as well. It reduces night lighting from 3 amps to 0.2 amps. That's a lot of night sailing.
Thanks, Thatcher!
Bob
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 8:04 AM, Thatcher Stone < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:RobertThat was a great response. I do get tremendous power from my windmill and of course, the more she blows, the more she generates. I do not have an ice maker, just an icebox inside the fridge. Since I changed every light on the boat to an LED I have had great success with power management. Thanks.
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Hi Tor,
Safety tip – when you go offshore tie lines beforehand. For two reasons: 1; when the rudder system fails it usually isn't in dead calm. You will have enough to do that doesn't include leaving the boat and 2; if the rudder shaft breaks you will still have a rudder on the end of your lines.
I read this in a magazine many years ago. And so, now, my friend, I pass it on to you.
Bob
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Silver Heels < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Right on. I drilled a hole in the lower aft corner of Silver Heels' rudder last year, so that if the steering system ever does fail I can (theoretically) dive overboard, tie lines to the rudder and lead them to the primary sheet winches to steer the boat.Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
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Hi Pat and Tor,
The Monitor emergency rudder is a whopping $1400! That's pretty darn steep. I think I'll do the traditional thing of eyes on the rudder – if the cable breaks I can still steer with the windvane.
If the rudder falls off, well, it's been nice to know you!
Bob
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What a terrific idea! How does it work? I mean, how well does it work?
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM, quent < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I guess we mght qualify as the most bazaar. We cut a hole in the countertop snd installed a small electric clother washer from Sam's Club.
Quent
Clairebuoyant—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Tor,
I have the monitor, and I wouldn't carry my dinghy on davits on a passage even if I had davits. I also have a Simrad tiller pilot that connects to the monitor instead of a paddle. But I also installed the Raymarine ST-6002 Autopilot that is interfaced with the C-80 that allows me to make routes and do all sorts of other stuff with the autopilot that I couldn't do with the windvane. If you have both I think you'll be happier than depending on one or the other expecially when the main on fails, or whatever. For systems that are a necessity (are there any, really?), two independent parallel systems are the way to go.
Hi Thatcher,
If you've got so much power that you can use six or seven amp-hours all day long with an internal autopilot then it's a perfectly rational way to go. The windvane will steer the boat saving all that power so that you can keep your batteries topped off, run your radar, freeze your ice and not have to run your engine once a day.
If you're not travelling more than a few hours a day you won't bother with a windvane as it takes a while to set up and adjust and it takes a while to put away. Pressing buttons is far faster and easier (I do it with great aplomb and vigor, I might add). But for longer journeys, the windvane is quite the little thing to have.
I'm looking to set the Pelican up to run using solar power and a shaft generator and minimized power consumption so that I can run up to 5 days without using 50% of my battery capacity of 600AH (50% = 300AH). With my portable fridge it's more than possible. With my main fridge, not so much.
The whole issue is what kind of sailing you are going to do. I plan Bahamas to Bermuda, Beaufort NC to Bahamas, Bermuda to Ireland not necessarily in that order. Passages like that where if I don't have to run the motor I'm happy as a clam. Windvanes are just the ticket for that kind of travelling.
Still, I know of many people who have done just those legs with electric autopilots.
It's all about personal preferences.
There's my two cents.
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
I wonder if I can store my surface air supply compressor there? I hadn't thought about that – I was going to open the part near the head in some fantastically complicated way and store my tools in there.
Bob
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 6:06 AM, kalinowski < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Wow!
Scuba tank storage. Great idea.
Dan Kalinowski
S/V Lady Leanne II (135)
Honolulu—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Hi Aaron,
All the sternrails are the same for all the 424s and probably the 422s as well. Just like we got the mast rails as a bunch for a good price, Pearson obviously did the same to save money (it's like paying more for soda without sugar or fat). I've seen it used for a sky hook. Ahahahaha!
Bob
—
Bob Fine
s/v Pelican
Hull #8Post generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
