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James-
It is likely that you have a circulation problem in the fresh water circuit. Here is an exploded diagram of the assembly.
http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=24577-222-223&model=W58 Propulsion / 20 KW Generator&manufacturer=Westerbeke&title=Fresh Water Cooling- From March 1981&quant_position=&catalog=24577&printparts=&printservice=&printoperators=&comment1=The thermostat on the W-58 has a disk on the bottom that seats on the lower thermostat housing when the thermostat opens. If this fails, coolant will simply recirculate through the engine and never go to the heat exchanger. Westerbeke built these engines with a combination of iron and aluminum parts. If your PO didn’t keep fresh antifreeze in the engine, it might be pretty well gummed up, esp. around the thermostat housings and the fresh water pump.
I suggest that you carefully remove the upper thermostat housing, check that the t-stat works, and is the right kind. The early upper housings are aluminum, replacements are cast iron. I ended up replacing both upper and lower housings.
If you remove the lower housing, then you can also replace the short hose leading to the fresh water pump housing which is probably original. You can also then check that the t-stat base disk seats properly.
I agree that pump failure usually is characterized by seal and bearing failure, but if the cooling system is corroded, the blades may be worn away on the pump rotor. This was the case on our W-58 #2, which lives in our garage. The last part is to clean out the gunk from the fresh water side of the heat exchanger.
The parts were not cheap, but the overheat problems we had, similar to yours, were cured.
Quent Kinderman
Clairebuoyant, #132John-
There apparently are groups of people who like fooling arounds with old engines even more that we do. Here is a starter link to discussions on addressing rust:
http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/5/1451.html#POST7159
QuentAnd that’s a rude ad hominem attack.
Boats are not real estate. Documentation services exist for those who are not comfortable with the process.
There are good reasons for legal representation. I doubt being scared by horror stories is one of them.
QuentThe Administrative Conference of the US said this about veterans’ claims, but I guess it applies to yachts as well:
“Any process that permits lawyers will eventually require them.”
QuentPretty much what we did. On a similar note, has anyone tried the portable hydraulic tools that Harbor Freight sells? They have an electric cable lug crimper for $50 and also a 12 ton gear puller for a bit more.
I bought the crimper but have not yet used it. It appears to be a nice piece of gear, ideal for crimping battery cable lugs in the field, a remedy for that old measure once, cut twice problem.
Quent
Clairebuoyant #132Removed ours using the method you are using. Cut it most of the way through in two places 180 degrees apart, then curled up one edge with a narrow screwdriver and a hammer. Once it is split the length of the bearing, grip the cut part with some heavy pliers, twist and pull it out.
Or pay the yard to do it.
QuentWe installed a PSS seal on Clairebuoyant in about 2003. It requires little maintenance. It is important that the part attached to the shaft land on a smooth and unworn part of the shaft as it seals with an o-ring inside the coller. We found a good used ss shaft originally from a powerboat, and had in cut to length with a new key slot. Works fine, cost $100.
This part of the P-424 is overbuilt. Shaft diameter 1-1/2″, under 60hp, and shaft speed 1400 rpm or less should last forever with maintenence.
Worst part of the job was getting the old hose off. Finally cut the hose clamps and hose with a mototool. Much burning rubber smoke in the face.
The way to remove the flange from the shaft is to assemble it with a nut or washers between the shaft ends then slowly tighten the bolts. This will push the shaft out of the flange.
Stainless steel stress corrosion cracking usually occurs in the absence of oxygen. Any wet place where water and/or air can’t circulate should be checked periodically.
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132I agree with Bob. Loaded it on an Acer netbook. OpenCPN immediately found and loaded my charts, raster and vector, and found the GPS. I will have to take it over to the boat to try the AIS, but so far it is faster and easier than Fugawi or Seaclear.
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132Hi Bob-
Apparently a software problem affecting its ability to work with the newer satellites. John knows the technical details.
It manifested at least on my system as a chartplotter screen that just stopped moving, no alarm or other warning. A bit nasty approaching Memory Rock eastbound after dark. Luckily, it was only one of several GPSs aboard. I think the later Raymarine GPS units are OK, but fool me once…!
Raymarine graciously offered to sell me a new current model for $300 or so. I decided to get a Garmin 17 for $100. The Garmin works just fine.
QuentWe have a Raymarine C-80 w/ 2kw RADAR, AIS in a Navpod at the wheel. I agree the Navionics charts are pretty bad, partly because they are old by the time Navionics gets them to market, and partly because they are full of errors, esp. on the ICWW. Nothing beats NOAA ENC (vector) charts on a PC for the ICWW.
The combination of chart/RADAR overlay and AIS is great off shore around commercial shipping traffic at night.
Maybe it’s just me, but I was quite unhappy about Raymarine’s sense of denial about what is apparently a well known problem with their GPS120. I resolved it by buying a Garmin GPS and trashing the Raymarine GPS120.
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132Alan-
Many mechanics use stove pipe sealant, the stuff used on wood stoves. It holds up well against the engine heat, and allows for later dissembly.
QuentDan-
A Mototool with fiberglass cutting discs cuts bronze easily. That is what we used to remove all our thru-hull fittings. On 3/4″ fittings, make diagonal cuts from outside to remove the mushroom head from the fitting. 1 1/2″ fittings are easier since the cutting disc will fit inside the thru-hull and you can simply cut off the fitting from outside just above the mushroom head. Then you can simply pull out the seacock from inside.
QuentHey Pete-
The repower arguement has been pretty well stated, so I’ll try the rebuild arguement. Basically, it is cheaper, and it fits. However, it will never be as good as a new engine. You will still have all the old Westerbeke aluminum parts. I bought a W-58 exhaust manifold several years ago. It was $600.
Have you pulled the head? If you have any significant head problem, that is a decisionmaker, since they are no longer availble from Westerbeke. That includes valve seats which are not replaceable. I’d also pull the t-stat housing and look for signs of a clogged up cooling system. If PO didn’t change the oil, he probably didn’t change antifreeze either.
The Mazda XA gasket set won’t fit. The W-58 base engine was a Perkins based on a Mazda design, but quite different. Incidently, the Westerbeke service manual has the W-52 and W-58 heads switched.
I removed and replaced our W-58. Fixed (or tried to) a few oil leaks including the rmb, and replaced the exhaust manifold and t-stat housings, but did not pull the head or check the bearings. We have a low hours engine. With the problems you have, I think we would repower, maybe with one of the new Kubota based engines.
Given the number of P-424 owners who motor along at 2000 rpm or so, I think 50 hp might be sufficient. I think a turbo is an unnecessary complication.
Quent
Clairebuoyant, #132
