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Phillip, the pump is fine. It is near indestructible. You have a bleeding or lack of fuel issue. Where is the injection pump bleed screw you are opening? The proper bleed point is on the inboard side of the pump, facing the engine. It is a 5/16th nut on the top cover, facing towards the block just inside and below the throttle lever (technically it's called a fuel rack, not a throttle). This should be the only point on or around the pump you need to bleed.
The W60 bleeding instructions are correct and will get you running, start at the beginning though, regardless of that you think is bled. My buddy RT had his Yanmar all torn apart looking for a fuel issue, I found a big piece of silicone in the tank that liberated itself from the inspection plate sucked as far as it would go into the pickup. Had he started at the beginning he'd have found this first.
When you crack the injector line fitting (the nut that wraps around the metal feed line from the pump) these only need to be snug when you tighten them up. Over tightening will crush the brass ferrule and it will leak. Be gentle with these.
More importantly, if the solenoid at the top of the tank is in the closed position as it is when the key is off your not getting any more fuel and your efforts are wasted. This has a small set screw on the faceplate that turned 90 degrees will override the cutoff valve.
Some of the crew on here have installed electric fuel pumps in the circuit, and I understand this will speed up and possibly eliminate the bleeding process.
You can use the starter to operate the fuel system, just don't turn it for more than 10-15 seconds as you open the various bleed points. Do be careful and wear eye protection. Remember that pump/injector has to overcome the pressure created in the cylinder when it's nearly top dead center, it is then when it injects the fuel so imagine the pressure that the little rotary high pressure pump is creating.
A decent mechanic should be able to bleed it in hour tops, but you should learn the process and understand the fuel system if you do or plan to be offshore. I paid to have it done once, but it took a second time of doing it after my rebuild that I really understood the system.
I have a second pump, but I doubt you need it.
Chuck
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Philippe Fontaine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
First start this season went fine for a few seconds than stalled and has not started since. Seems to be plenty of fues up to the injection pump bleed screw but not much at the injectors. Anyone hae a suggestion and a source for an injection pump if it comes to that?
Phil Fontaine
AuroraPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
On Sea Duty Capt. Hal installed some small self contained cube speakers in the forward upper interior space in the coaming sheet storage area (that spot under the primaries your guests load up with stuff). They cannot be seen from the outside without sticking your face up into the opening. They provide ample volume and routinely get hit with the hose, and are out of the way. What I was thinking is it might be possible to mount your flush mount speakers facing down in the same space. The question is whether you can access the cavity above it.
If you'd rather not cut a hole (I wouldn't) then you might be able to mount the speaker on a fitted piece of teak and secure the whole unit up in there, facing downward. It's a pretty large void. Allow for drainage.
As much as I agree that music in an anchorage can sometimes be a downer, a rousing tune at sea can set the mood for the day. Capt. Bill on Charisma got the show going one am as we crossed the Gulf Stream with a selection from “Victory At Sea”. It set the tone for the eminent arrival and put an ear to ear grin on his face while playing… I also have a vivid memory of a Anegada sunrise with the sounds of Amazing Grace on the bagpipes lightly drifting in from another vessel. Having been a firefighter for 15+ years this was a moving moment that I was glad another boater shared with me.
ChuckOn Sat, May 9, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Patrick Walters < ([email][/email])> wrote:
They are not mounted yet, but I plan to run the wire from the stereo which is in the shelf above the aft berth up under the headliner and then out to the cabin top. I'll probably have a waterproof connection there so I can remove the speakers it I want.
I will be redoing the headliner when I rebed all the deck hardware so I will finish it then, right now I just have one of the aft speakers hooked up with the wire running free and I place it where I want when working above deck.
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Aaron, do you have a W60? If so the glow plug doesn't extend all the way to the cylinder. It is in a chamber in the head. This toroidal chamber is where the fuel and air mix, British Leyand called it the Ricardo Comet design. If you have a W58 not sure what that head looks like. Either way the configuration on these engines is of an 'interference type', there's no major clearance (about the thickness of a business card) in there when the piston is at TDC.
You think it broke when you removed it? Is the broken end clean metal or sooty? If it's sooty then it's probably been broke for a while, the part may still be in the chamber. Move that piston to TDC before you start probing around. A q-tip with a glob of Vaseline might latch onto it an coax it out. If the break is clean exposed metal, a head gasket is cheap compared to a piston assembly (which you'll need access to the bottom of the engine to replace).
Sorry for the great news.
I've got a W60 head in the shed, I've never really inspected this chamber. If that's what you got let me know, I'll see if it looks like something that size could be sitting in there with out making it's way into the cylinder.
Finally, if you do remove the head (which is surprisingly easy on the W60), I understand the shop in Gloucester (I think Mid Atlantic) has rebuilt W60 heads in stock, will take yours in trade and send you a new unit with fresh valves, seats and guides, but any engine shop worth it's salt could do the same. The W60 manual provides the valve angles/dimensions. The head weighs about 60/75 pounds.
Chuck
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
OK, so basically all of the plugs have 100% resistance (no continuity)
In addition, one of them is broken off at the base, so now I gotta borrow a bore scope and have a look see at the piston.Ahhh, this is the life this Yachting thing *
Where do you get replacement glow plugs? I’ve looked online and can;t seem to find a simple order form anywhere. Does Champion still make them (ag-50)
* Re fancy schmancy Yachting… Yesterday I worked the pumpout boat and got sprayed in the face. Neat!
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On the W60 there's a small electrical panel that supports the starter connections and the oil pressure sensor. On it are two circuit breakers a 10 and a 40 amp. One's for the preheat and the other is for the starter. You might check and see if either requires a reset.
ChuckOn Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
The only way you could burn out all four glow plugs would be to lose power……
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Rich, a couple would move in their bedding when operated, most had visible streaks leading down the hull from leakage. None have any type of backing plate between the seacock and the hull. I'm a glutton for punishment?
Tor, thanks for the note on the 111. I'll post when I locate a source.
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM, < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Quote:Chuck
Why on earth did you pull your seacocks? It sounds like a lot of work. Was there something wrong with them? Mine all look fine after 31 years. I inject some grease into the valves every few years to keep them serviced.Regards
Rich
Original Message
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John, you are correct. It is a Groco, my mistake. All 4 of the original 1.5 seacocks on #27 are that same type.
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:46 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Chuck,
It looks like you have one seacock (the Groco with the butterfly valve – The one you may have identified as Perko) and two ball valves (probably Conbraco). The seacock can be dis-assembled and repaired. I'm not a fan of the Conbraco ball valves.I'd replace them with Groco or similar.John
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If that's working, then fuel is the issue. If you still have the shutoff solenoid on the top of the tank, take it out and mate the fuel line together.
There's a small set screw on the front of the solenoid that will manually overide the cutoff fuction, turn it 90 degrees. Check that the fuel solenoid is getting voltage when the key is turned on. Could be another lose connection. The solenoid is probably at the top of the tank. W58 or W60?
ChuckPost generated from Pearson424 Forum using Mail2Forum
Paul, the only concern I'd have with the product in there is what if water gets between the filler and the bilge wall in the winter and freezes.
I like the deep keel. In a messy seaway I know I'm going to gather some water on board. With it waaaaaay down in that well I also know that it will stay in that general area until pumped out. Much better than possibly slopping around under the floorboards.
A breaking wave over the stern at the wrong time could find you with 100+ gallons of water added to your list of provisions. That big bathtub at the back of the keel is a real sweet place for it to end up for its short visit aboard.
ChuckI'm sure I've seen threads about this in the past, but could find them.
I looked at a P424 this weekend with a “filled in sump”. It appears to be concrete. I'm not sure what this might do to structural integrity (better? worse?) or how the added weight might ultimately affect the performance.
I'd love to get input from others, particularly from anyone who's actually done this to their boat.
Please lemme know. Thanks,Paul
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You guys might want to respond to Don directly. I doubt he subscribes to the list. God forbid he has to read about shower curtians choices and drifter sock management…
Your comments are right on though, it was very respectable of him to take the time to post some pricing details and manufacturer concerns about such an important component in our boats drive train.
ChuckOn Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Rodd Leeds < ([email][/email])> wrote:
DonC:
Thank you for your feedback–I boat on Long Island,NY, and can easily remove the vdrive and bring it to your location. I am glad I know of this option now and that the cost is moderate. I will now plan on bringing the unit in next fall after this season.
Rodd Leeds
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This months Ocean Navigator has a nice instructional article on a mast boot made from an old truck inner tube.
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:27 PM, John Stevenson < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Then it sounds like two problems. I'd attack the outside one first
John
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Lee Yonkers < ([email][/email])> wrote:
It leaks from both the inside and around the outside.
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The mast step is aluminum and is (was) secured to the timber under the deck with only lag bolts. Take advantage of the situation and have a new one made from FRP. You can make it by laminating some 1/2″ thick pieces together with 5200. The mast won't bond to it due to corrosion. The loads on the mizzen are minimal compared to the main and repairs shouldn't prove to be that tough. You'll get new chainplates bonded to new glass plus new shrouds! It reads as if the boat shifted in the sling and didn't strike yard surface.
My operator snagged the prop during the pre-purchase haul out for inspection, the boat was lifted only enough to see it was hung. It bent the output shaft, it was a soft metal, maybe bronze? The yard took responsibility and was very supportive in the fix, replacing the cut less bearing and upgrading the shaft to ss. They also had the max prop serviced to ensure it suffered no damage. The strut and its mount location I now know are nearly bomb proof.
I now turn the shaft by hand once the slings are in place prior to lifting. The running backstays on the mizzen must be completely eased but I'm sure you guys are aware of this. The 424, 422 and sister 365 are a bear to sling.
Operating a travel lift is a thankless and challenging job, the poor guy probably only hears about his one mistake and never the 500 other successful lifts he does each fall. They day of haul out I bring hot donuts from Krispy Kreme, spring launch gets a couple case of Heiney's for the yard staff.
Stuff happens.
Chuck
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM, adam silverstein < ([email][/email])> wrote:
the lift operator said it was the first time he ever had anyone slip in the straps like that. anyone know riggers within 25 miles of Brooklyn, ny? I need an inspection and a little work on the old mizzen. any experience you may have had using the short mast to stop the boat falling would also be appreciated.
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Robert, what about that spot behind the shower? It appeared there's quite a cavity back there.
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Robert Fine < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hi All!
Thanks! I'm going check out the space aft of the water tanks –
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Howard, do you have a vacuum gauge on the fuel feed? This might be located next to the racor filter. This will tell you if the engine is starved for fuel. Either that or you have an air leak allowing air into the fuel. You'll need a hand held vacuum pump with gauge to isolate that.
The fuel cut off solenoid is probably on top of the tank at the pickup and can be manually set to 'on' with the small screw on the front. Turn it 90 degrees. This likely isn't your problem.
Some other thoughts not to be confused with orderly troubleshooting….
Have you tried replacing the fuel filters? I had a fouled tank and after two hours of run time the boat would exhibit the similar symptoms. If replacing the primary filter (the one closest to the fuel source) gets you running again then you have dirty fuel, assuming you have a primary filter. The secondary (the one on the engine) should be changed at the same time if you are uncertain of the condition.
Pull some fuel off the bottom of the tank, you can do this by removing the gauge. You might find water, sediment and other treats you'll need to figure out how to deal with.
Chuck
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:18 AM, howard < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Hey, we have just purchased a Pearson 422. So far we love the boat. we are having a problem with the engine shutting down after about 30 min run time. it will start back up and run but shut down again. It seems to be a fuel problem. the lift pump is new(i know new parts can be bad) but what i would like to know if anyone has looked into the fuel shut off valve, where is it on this engine. the wiring is not up to par and will be repaired but you know how long that takes to track it all down. Looking at my manuals the fuel pump is powered thru the shut off valve am i correct? it will be another month before i can get back to this and would love as many suggestions as possibe. It is the Westerbeke 58. Thanks all
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Lee, my life lines are in the mail on the way back. I used Seco South. I sent them the old ones on Monday. I went with 1×19 SS. All hardware was replaced. Before removal I marked the location of the turnbuckles with sharpie on the threads and labeled each section.
I spoke with the tech before he got started about the possibility of wear, where the cable passes through the stanchion. He said the cable probably won't be harmed (he said the quality of the cable could actually saw away at the stanchion). As an after thought I figured I could have supplied some clear pvc tubing that would fit inside the stanchions and had them slip a 6″ section on each before swaging the ends. During install cut into equal sections place one at each pass through.He also said owners use the coated stuff more often and charter companies use the un-coated. Sea Duty's not the gem of the marina. I'm going for functionality.
The whole job was 5 boat units.
Chuck
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Lee Yonkers < ([email][/email])> wrote:
I need to replace my coated lifelines. I know I don't want the coated type which leaves me to choose between stainless steel and very low stretch line from Samson or New England Rope. I spoke with the folks at Sampson and asked them about the three year replacement requirement. The guy said that the line will last nearly forever; it is the fittings (made by Johnson) that need to be replaced every three years at Johnson's recommendation . He also said that there are lots of boats with way more than three years on them and they are working fine.
All comments, suggestions and recommendations appreciated.
Lee
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Aaron, I have a second wiring harness if you need it. Inludes the panel where the breakers and the oil pressure switches are.
Chuck
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:43 PM, Aaron Lynch < ([email][/email])> wrote:
Tor Said:
(See what happens when you go looking for trouble?)
Tor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Silver Heels, P-424 #17
http://www.SilverHeels.us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Yeah, so my Tach is acting flooky, so today I decided to investigate, and now I’ve pretty much decided to re-wire the entire engine/Alternator/inverter/charger/solar/battery system(s)
🙁
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